D'Natagal wrote:I have read a lot about the top 4 prospects, watched a lot of games this year with each of them... And I still wonder if WCS might not be the best fit for the wolves. He guards anyone and everyone. He is a fantastic athlete and plays a team game. I see a lot of Tyson Chandler. Wouldn't a lunch pail type fit well with Rubio, Wiggins, Bazz, Pro? He would allow pressure defense to be played by the Wolves. Do we really need a guy that, in order to score, needs the ball a bunch? He would be my choice... And what about Kaminsky? He looks like a high IQ player that could be a great stretch 4.
I wouldn't mind either WCS or Kaminsky but not at the #4 if we could trade down to say 8-11 and grab a solid veteran than I think that it should be considered granted Towns, Okafor, and Russell are off the board. Then Flip needs to decide if we can afford to pass up on Muiday
Camden wrote:About to watch Portis vs LSU on this fine morning.
His final stat line from that game: 21 pts (10-17 FG), 15 rebs, 4 ast, 2 blks in 34 mins.
One of the most consistent big-time producers in college basketball. Turned just 20 last month. Carries his team night in and night out. Okay, enough of the hype. Let's see what the video says.
Yikes, that's an impressive line, especially against a pretty good LSU team that ranks 14th in the nation in rebounding. He's scored over 20 points 3 of the past 4 games, and even put up 15 and 8 against Kentucky's trees, He's moving up in the mocks faster than just about anyone, and now sits just outside the lottery in most. May work himself into the lottery with a good tournament run. I still see a chance of him being a viable option for us if Flip doesn't like the players available at 4, 5 or (gasp) 6. and elects to trade down. I don't have any specific deals in mind, but say for instance we ended up with the 5th pick and Flip didn't see any game changers...I would be receptive to trading the pick in exchange for a pick somewhere in the mid-teens plus a future first if Flip thought Portis would be available.
I watched that game vs Kentucky. If I remember correctly, 6-8 points and 3-4 rebounds of his came in scrub time near the end of the game. He was non-existant the whole game.
The issue I have with trading down is that we really don't need more role players....which is typically the plan when trading down. Top tier talent in the NBA TYPICALLY (not always) comes from the top 6-7 picks in the draft. I don't disagree with the plan if circumstances are correct (i.e. trading back to get Muhammad/Dieng), as there simply wasn't any top-tier talent left at our draft slot. Heck, maybe we find ourselves in that spot again if we fall to 5-6 this year....let's hope not. I have no problem with Portis, but again, odds are if he falls to 10-15 range, you are looking more at a role player than a team-changing type player.....which we desperately need.
Every team covets a defensive-minded Center, but damn, that's hard to project based on a year or two of college. We know that WCS is known for his defense at Kentucky, but how will his skinny frame and poor defensive rebounding translate at the NBA level? Could he get backed down in the low post as easily as Dieng does? And we already know that offensively he's very limited. That won't get much better after three years of college experience, so drafting WCS means we are banking purely on his defense translating.
This is why I'm loathe to say that Towns trumps Okafor based purely on defense. While it's true that Towns has a bigger impact defensively in college, I'm not sure how these guys evolve over the next few years. Okafor is built like a 100-year old oak tree. He seems like he could be really tough to move around in the paint. A lot of really good defensive Centers hold their ground and clog up the lane. He's weaker on pick and roll and guarding the perimeter, but he could improve in those areas.
Towns to me looks like he holds more of his weight in his upper body. His legs look kind of skinny to me. I wonder how easily he gets pushed around on the interior at the next level?
By the way, I'm not anti-Towns or pro-Okafor. I would be tickled to get either of these guys. But projecting defense from a Center prospect seems like a difficult task - much more difficult than projecting wing defense, for example.
Q12543 wrote:Every team covets a defensive-minded Center, but damn, that's hard to project based on a year or two of college. We know that WCS is known for his defense at Kentucky, but how will his skinny frame and poor defensive rebounding translate at the NBA level? Could he get backed down in the low post as easily as Dieng does? And we already know that offensively he's very limited. That won't get much better after three years of college experience, so drafting WCS means we are banking purely on his defense translating.
This is why I'm loathe to say that Towns trumps Okafor based purely on defense. While it's true that Towns has a bigger impact defensively in college, I'm not sure how these guys evolve over the next few years. Okafor is built like a 100-year old oak tree. He seems like he could be really tough to move around in the paint. A lot of really good defensive Centers hold their ground and clog up the lane. He's weaker on pick and roll and guarding the perimeter, but he could improve in those areas.
Towns to me looks like he holds more of his weight in his upper body. His legs look kind of skinny to me. I wonder how easily he gets pushed around on the interior at the next level?
By the way, I'm not anti-Towns or pro-Okafor. I would be tickled to get either of these guys. But projecting defense from a Center prospect seems like a difficult task - much more difficult than projecting wing defense, for example.
I am pro Okafor but would be ecstatic with Towns too. I agree completely with your post. I do think Okafors scoring and rebounding translate fine to the NBA. Like his body and his footwork. I agree that Towns seems more athletic, but Okafor looks like such a natural NBA big (in a good way), with the scoring, passing, and physique. I also don't see a gaping hole in his D, but definitely room for improvement. Both Okafor and Towns seem to have great NBA bodies. WCS and Myles turner not so much. But there have been a lot of great bigs who had awkward physiques who turned out to be great. I think with bigs you roll the dice on how they will pan out for the most part, which is why when you have some surefire competencies you take them. This argument can be made for Okafor or Towns, either of whom I feel would fit perfectly with Wiggins and Rubio.
Would Okafor be better if he were surrounded by the talented bigs Towns is? Would Towns look better if he were the main guy like Okafor is?
I can't answer on either account. Both look to be difference making bigs. I think you draft the guy who you think will be better on defense. You have to have a big that can lock down the paint.
I think I would go Towns over Okafor. He gives us that blocking/rebounding presence we need. He is a solid scorer too. Russell still my favorite prospect though.
Sneaky good/interesting move that Flip could think about if he's out of position for Towns/Okafor...
Trade down, collect a future pick, draft Robert Upshaw. That's a large man with good production at the college level before being dismissed for violating team rules.
Camden wrote:Sneaky good/interesting move that Flip could think about if he's out of position for Towns/Okafor...
Trade down, collect a future pick, draft Robert Upshaw. That's a large man with good production at the college level before being dismissed for violating team rules.
Cam this draft needs to yield a potential all star for us. We hopefully won't be in this position any longer, so we really need to make this one count. I would be more inclined to trade up for the guy we want. Which is going to be tough to do since we will be drafting first.
Camden wrote:Sneaky good/interesting move that Flip could think about if he's out of position for Towns/Okafor...
Trade down, collect a future pick, draft Robert Upshaw. That's a large man with good production at the college level before being dismissed for violating team rules.
If Flip wanted Upshaw, I think he would be available early in the 2nd round...but I don't think he wants him. Upshaw's stats are almost identical to Hassan Whiteside's, but unfortunately he is much more of a loose cannon...he's been dismissed from 2 programs in two years now. I had an interesting talk at breakfast yesterday with one of the Wolves' minority owners, who was obviously happy about Payne's performance in LA. But he said Flip is even more happy with his character. He said that Flip recognizes the importance of a good locker room after the past 5 years, and has purposefully assembled a group of athletes who also have great character. That's why I don't see him taking a chance on an Upshaw or a Hezonja in the draft.
