Don't know if this has been posted - Flip keeping options open

[mrhockey89]

khans, I think you make some good points.

But what happens when you get a Johnny Flynn situation, or a Teddy Bridgewater situation where the workout just happens to make people think about your athleticism rather than actual basketball skill in a game situation, or happens to be just a great/terrible day for that player?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

khans, I think you make some good points.

But what happens when you get a Johnny Flynn situation, or a Teddy Bridgewater situation where the workout just happens to make people think about your athleticism rather than actual basketball skill in a game situation, or happens to be just a great/terrible day for that player?

We're talking about a 3 man race for the top pick. I don't think any of the 3 could do enough in a workout to take the top spot from someone else. It's just an opportunity to backup what everyone is preaching about them.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Towns won't workout for any teams. I would bet Okafor won't either.

Thanks goodness! I hope Okafor follows suit. There is zero motivation for these guys to do a workout given their current draft stock and I certainly don't want a single workout against orange cones and folding chairs to influence who we pick. Remember, this is the final impression these guys will leave on our decision makers. The http://www.alleydog.com/glossary/definition.php?term=Recency%20Effectrecency effect is a real phenomena that should not be underestimated:

Workouts are done for pure psychological reasons by front office types that are naturally insecure in trusting the hoards of video, live game action, and background reports they have already compiled and studied. They just must see these people in person in an empty gym!

There is no evidence that it helps you make the right pick and the strategy absolutely backfired for us when Jonny Flynn came in and had a tremendous workout.

I think Danny Ainge validates this in the article below about Marcus Smart. He sort of minimizes the importance of workouts, yet these guys just can't resist:

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/05/marcus_smarts_1st_pre-draft_wo.html

Of course...workouts are also the reason that the Wolves fell in love with KGs potential. (granted there was less legitimate tape of KG than there is these guys)

I've already said this within a debate with khans, but those times were different! The Wolves didn't have a whole season of college basketball to go through and scout. They didn't have tons of video from AAU, high school and national team play to go through. The workout meant more back then in 1995 than it does in 2015. Newsflash: that's 20 years ago and scouting is way more advanced today.

[mrhockey89]

Good point khans, although it might showcase a guy like Towns, who is athletic and has outside shooting ability, more. Which somewhat would beg the question, why wouldn't he want to cement himself as the #1 guy...but I suppose if he figures he'll go top 2 either way and it's a win win for him, then so be it.

But really, a single workout shouldn't be what separates the two bigs for us (assuming we go big). Maybe if they had similar strengths/weaknesses/styles/abilities, but it's a pretty stark contrast between the two, so Flip and friends should be able to figure out which style they think will fit best for this team's chances of turning into a championship contender in a few years.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Good point khans, although it might showcase a guy like Towns, who is athletic and has outside shooting ability, more. Which somewhat would beg the question, why wouldn't he want to cement himself as the #1 guy...but I suppose if he figures he'll go top 2 either way and it's a win win for him, then so be it.

But really, a single workout shouldn't be what separates the two bigs for us (assuming we go big). Maybe if they had similar strengths/weaknesses/styles/abilities, but it's a pretty stark contrast between the two, so Flip and friends should be able to figure out which style they think will fit best for this team's chances of turning into a championship contender in a few years.

Again, the workouts are for confirmation, not to separate guys. There are things Towns and Okafor didn't utilize in college that we should gauge with our own eyes and not just go off their coaches or trainers words.

To Cam's point we frankly shouldn't give a shit what they did before college against such inferior competition. These guys can do whatever they want against high school and AAU competition and they all dominate that level. They're 7 footers fighting for the top draft spot. If high school mattered Bazz would have been a top 3 pick last year because he dominated that level. How many of these top prospects fighting for top 10 picks were perfectly lined up 1-10 coming into college? It changes dramatically after just 1 college season so I don't think any AAU or high school ball should matter in these evaluations.

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

You want to have the coaches around the players in a practice like setting. They get to see little things that don't show up in games. You just can't take Coach K, or Cal's word for everything about these kids. Having the top pick in the draft helps them recruiting. They have a vested interest to see these guys go first.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

khans, I think you make some good points.

But what happens when you get a Johnny Flynn situation, or a Teddy Bridgewater situation where the workout just happens to make people think about your athleticism rather than actual basketball skill in a game situation, or happens to be just a great/terrible day for that player?

We're talking about a 3 man race for the top pick. I don't think any of the 3 could do enough in a workout to take the top spot from someone else. It's just an opportunity to backup what everyone is preaching about them.

Than why do them?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

You want to have the coaches around the players in a practice like setting. They get to see little things that don't show up in games. You just can't take Coach K, or Cal's word for everything about these kids. Having the top pick in the draft helps them recruiting. They have a vested interest to see these guys go first.

Uh, I actually care more about the stuff that shows up in games than in a workout in an empty gym. What does it matter if it isn't manifested in real game action?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good point khans, although it might showcase a guy like Towns, who is athletic and has outside shooting ability, more. Which somewhat would beg the question, why wouldn't he want to cement himself as the #1 guy...but I suppose if he figures he'll go top 2 either way and it's a win win for him, then so be it.

But really, a single workout shouldn't be what separates the two bigs for us (assuming we go big). Maybe if they had similar strengths/weaknesses/styles/abilities, but it's a pretty stark contrast between the two, so Flip and friends should be able to figure out which style they think will fit best for this team's chances of turning into a championship contender in a few years.

Again, the workouts are for confirmation, not to separate guys. There are things Towns and Okafor didn't utilize in college that we should gauge with our own eyes and not just go off their coaches or trainers words.

To Cam's point we frankly shouldn't give a shit what they did before college against such inferior competition. These guys can do whatever they want against high school and AAU competition and they all dominate that level. They're 7 footers fighting for the top draft spot. If high school mattered Bazz would have been a top 3 pick last year because he dominated that level. How many of these top prospects fighting for top 10 picks were perfectly lined up 1-10 coming into college? It changes dramatically after just 1 college season so I don't think any AAU or high school ball should matter in these evaluations.

Wait, so real game action in AAU against other top AAU teams matters less than a single workout in an empty gym.....already then.

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

You want to have the coaches around the players in a practice like setting. They get to see little things that don't show up in games. You just can't take Coach K, or Cal's word for everything about these kids. Having the top pick in the draft helps them recruiting. They have a vested interest to see these guys go first.

Uh, I actually care more about the stuff that shows up in games than in a workout in an empty gym. What does it matter if it isn't manifested in real game action?

I understand that, but when you have three prospects who are very closely rated you want all the data you can compile to make the best decision. If you base your pick off a workout you are a fool. You just want as much information as possible.