Camden wrote:sjm34 wrote:Camden wrote:It's fair to throw into the mix that Wall and Beal both had much better handles than Wiggins does when they were his age. Did Saunders have something to do with the improvement? Sure, I won't doubt that, but there has to be something to work with. For instance, I bet Saunders helps LaVine grow immensely. Zach has a capable handle that can be made better. Wiggins has a very poor handle. Can he go from below average to average or better? That's the franchise question.
(Know who has a decent handle? Jabari Parker. Okay, okay, I'm done.)
Considering they are both half his size, I would expect them to have better handles. You might want to go back and look at their first 20 games before you start putting them on that pedestal. Trust me, it wasn't any better than AW, and in Beals' case, considerably worse.
By effortless, I mean he can pull up and get his jumper off against anybody. The effort comes when trying to drive to basket.
Jabari is so good that until about the last 5 games, he was less efficient offensively than AW was, and that was supposed to be a no-contest. Just like the difference in their D, which actually is a no-contest. Young shut Parker down man on man, and Young is absolutely atrocious on D.
And let's not forget that Wall, Beal, and Parker are playing in the Leastern conference.
I would argue that our coaching staff is screwing AW up by continually harping on him to be more aggressive. Almost every time AW gets the ball on the wing, the defense automatically roles a big over to help, including SA. AW should be passing that ball off in that situation, like he was doing earlier in the season, rather than driving into a packed painted area.
- Not sure why size is brought into the conversation when talking about a player's handle. All three players in question have to be able to get to the rim. One's a PG, the other's a SG and the last is a SG/SF. Height difference by a grand total of 5 inches (at most) isn't enough to make it OK that Wiggins can't put it on the deck. 6'4, 6'5 and 6'8. Also, arguing that Wiggins had a better or same handle as either one of them is downright laughable to me as that's just not true, even when they were rookies.
- Sure, Wiggins can rise up and get an inefficient mid-range jumper off over most. Bravo to him. It comes with no dribble move previous to the shot other than a step back or a jab step. My point is it seems like every one of those shots are contested. LaVine too takes mid-range jumpers, but I'd say that he gets off much cleaner looks than Wiggins simply because he makes the defender put weight on his heels. So, even with your definition of "effortless", it's a stretch to say how he gets his 11 PPG is a positive to this point.
- Jabari's the leading scoring rookie, I believe, with 49% shooting from the floor. He's more efficient than Wiggins and the reason why is because he can get to the rim. Positional difference is no excuse either. Scoring is still a skill, and there are no excuses for why Carmelo Anthony's a better scorer than Paul George. It's just the way it is. And you can mouth off that Young is a poor defender, but it's not true, and I'm surprised you see differently. Young has played good perimeter defense, played the P&R well and has been our best help defender. His weakness lies in battling larger forwards on the block. He is what he is, though, and it's not a poor defender as you say. As for the Parker Vs Young matchup, that's not easy for any rook and Young beat him. But as you like to remind everyone, these are really young kids just 20 games in.
- Playing in the East has nothing to do with how affective a player's dribble is or how confident/aggressive a player's mental makeup is. These are my biggest concerns with Wiggins and they'd be relevant even if Wiggins was in Milwaukee.
- Not sure why you're blaming the staff for Wiggins not passing out of double teams. I'm sure he's known that concept since high school. Wiggins also attempts cross court skip passes when there's no pass to be made and it results in turnovers. That's a middle school hoops concept. Maybe Wiggins has a poor feel to the game, and you're right. I would agree.
The good thing is that he's still a youngin'. As long as he gradually improves, then I'm OK with it. My stance was that I would rather have Jabari (15 PPG/7 RPG/2 APG per36) instead of Andrew. My intention wasn't to start ANOTHER debate about these two, but I answered the thread's question, and I've layed out my reason's why.
At the end of the day, Minnesota has Wiggins and Milwaukee has Parker. Nothing said in this forum will change that, but I won't go overly homer to justify why "our guy" is better.
I guess it was just coincidence that you chose two guys that were smaller then, and I was comparing their overall stats not only their handle in the second portion of the paragraph. Scary that I have to point that out to you. If you don't think size has anything to do with a guy's handle, why don't you rattle off the guys that are 6'8 with a good handle other than Lebron, Durant, and Melo.
Playing in the east against lesser competition has everything to do with being efficient offensively.
I am blaming the staff because they are continually telling him to attack the rim. Even Martin told him they would rather have him go 3/20 as opposed to 4/8. That sure sounds like them telling him not to pass. I myself would let him figure it out for himself. It isn't like he doesn't try and penetrate.
Parker's efficiency is because Mil has been good about getting him the ball at the rim, not because he is getting there on his dribble. You clearly aren't watching Mil games if you are seeing different.
Young doesn't even understand (like most of our bigs) how to defend the PnR. One would have thought he would be good at it, but he never stops the ball handlers penetration. He waves a hand while he is running back to his man. Thad does a good job on the perimeter in a man on man situation, and that is the extent of his good D. He is a lousy help defender as well. Bennett is already leaps and bounds ahead of him defensively, particularly in the PnR and help categories.
