Wolves/Clips: So we're not gonna play shabazz or a Pek/Dieng combo

[kms789 [enjin:6694798]]

Alright take a look at our Net On/Off numbers this year. Not the perfect stat, but the only one that really looks at the whole team: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2014/on-off/

The starters are predictably good, except Kevin Martin really, who only has a Net Rating of +2.4. Makes sense, since most people have agreed here that his defense hurts as much as his offense helps. The bench has been predictably bad, except Turiaf (-4.9), Bud (-4.6) and Hummel (-2.3). The rest of the bench is between -5 and -11.5 (Barea, again predictable). Except Shabazz, who is at -21.6, all by himself.

Those numbers don't tell the whole tale, but what I've noticed is that his points are pretty replaceable at 43% shooting, but his passing and lack of defense say he's not ready to be a contributor yet.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Dieng and Shabazz have potential to be starters on this team. I actually do believe that.

on a good team? Deing yes, bazz no

Let's hear the argument. Why can't Bazz be a starting SF on a good team? Why does he not have the potential to be that? 21-year old player who when given significant minutes has been impressive.

doesn't pass, doesn't defend

Hmm. Two aspects of basketball that can be improved with more time. Go figure.

His defense isn't lacking energy or effort. He has the size, strength and length to guard most SFs in the NBA. Does his technique need improvement? Sure. I'm not arguing that, but does he have the potential to be good or at least average on defense in time.

Pekovic isn't a fantastic passer either and I believe you love him. Choosing favorites alex? As long as Shabazz isn't a blackhole on offense, he'll be fine. It's not like he'll be the primary scorer.

"Also, only uses left hand, almost all of his offense comes from the left block, and he shoots at a rate that rivals Durant." -- kms

I don't give a shit what hand he uses as long as he puts the ball in the hoop, which he's shown he can do at every level. He'll need to mix it up a little more going forward, but which hand he uses isn't the biggest issue with his scoring. It's that he sometimes pre-determines what move he's going to do instead of reacting to the defense.

There's a lot of players who have potential to be good defenders, Irving, Ellis, but never do. And If shabazz can get 18 points while shooting 56% like Pek does, then he doesn't have to pass.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Kms, You know as well as anyone that +/- is a noisy stat that typically requires large sample sizes before you put too much credence into it. Dieng's don't look that great either, yet you would agree he is a legit rotation player.

Shabazz has had these small spurts of play that just make it hard to come to any hard conclusions. Now if you go look at his box score splits, you will see that his shooting efficiency has been trending upwards since February - they are very respectable.

I think the larger point is that it's not like we have this juggernaut of a SF rotation that should be impossible to crack. If Budinger was hitting on all cylinders and Mbah Moute wasn't such a disaster offensively, I think it it would be easier to defend Adelman. But we're out of the playoffs, none of our other SFs really stand out, so why not at least give the kid a a couple of decent stints a game. It doesn't even have to be for more than 15-18 minutes total. Just start feeding him some minutes.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Dieng and Shabazz have potential to be starters on this team. I actually do believe that.

on a good team? Deing yes, bazz no

Let's hear the argument. Why can't Bazz be a starting SF on a good team? Why does he not have the potential to be that? 21-year old player who when given significant minutes has been impressive.

doesn't pass, doesn't defend

Hmm. Two aspects of basketball that can be improved with more time. Go figure.

His defense isn't lacking energy or effort. He has the size, strength and length to guard most SFs in the NBA. Does his technique need improvement? Sure. I'm not arguing that, but does he have the potential to be good or at least average on defense in time.

Pekovic isn't a fantastic passer either and I believe you love him. Choosing favorites alex? As long as Shabazz isn't a blackhole on offense, he'll be fine. It's not like he'll be the primary scorer.

"Also, only uses left hand, almost all of his offense comes from the left block, and he shoots at a rate that rivals Durant." -- kms

I don't give a shit what hand he uses as long as he puts the ball in the hoop, which he's shown he can do at every level. He'll need to mix it up a little more going forward, but which hand he uses isn't the biggest issue with his scoring. It's that he sometimes pre-determines what move he's going to do instead of reacting to the defense.

There's a lot of players who have potential to be good defenders, Irving, Ellis, but never do. And If shabazz can get 18 points while shooting 56% like Pek does, then he doesn't have to pass.

In what world did either of those two have potential to be good defenders? Really pulled that opinion out your ass didn't you. Wow.

Pek shot 56% for practically half a season; don't use that in your favor. Regardless, it doesn't matter what Shabazz shoots from the field. People that don't like Shabazz will never change their argument, yourself included. I would have loved to know what you thought about Pekovic his first year when it looked questionable if he could even make it in the NBA. Now he's one of the guys you advocate for all the time.

Guess what. Pekovic came through on his potential. Ruling Shabazz and his potential out after a rookie season in which he didn't get all the minutes he deserved is pretty stupid.

[kms789 [enjin:6694798]]

Kms, You know as well as anyone that +/- is a noisy stat that typically requires large sample sizes before you put too much credence into it. Dieng's don't look that great either, yet you would agree he is a legit rotation player.

Shabazz has had these small spurts of play that just make it hard to come to any hard conclusions. Now if you go look at his box score splits, you will see that his shooting efficiency has been trending upwards since February - they are very respectable.

I think the larger point is that it's not like we have this juggernaut of a SF rotation that should be impossible to crack. If Budinger was hitting on all cylinders and Mbah Moute wasn't such a disaster offensively, I think it it would be easier to defend Adelman. But we're out of the playoffs, none of our other SFs really stand out, so why not at least give the kid a a couple of decent stints a game. It doesn't even have to be for more than 15-18 minutes total. Just start feeding him some minutes.

Yep, not a perfect stat by any means. I don't have the numbers anymore, but Dieng's were down towards Shabazz before he started playing like this.

Still, at -21.6, I think even if you account for some noise, it doesn't look good. And look, I like both of these rookies, but I've also seen this wave of praise for Anthony Randolph, Darko, Wes Johnson, and countless others. And I think the Adelman bashing has gone from justifiable to just ridiculous.

[Porckchop]

Its tough for me to know is Shabazz really is a selfish player when the situations he's been put in are difficult .
Hes either been put in with a large lead and playing along side scraps where hes expected to carry the burden of scoring or hes played when their so far behind that the team play philosphy goes out the window cuz most are out there just trying to get theirs and make an impression. When he has played in meaningful games hes shown great hussle, rebounds well and for the most part made good decisions on the floor. Which in turn as helped win a few of those games. I choose to look at those games.
Hes gritty, fights for loose balls and has a few nice moves on the left baseline as a springboard from which to work. He's shown more to me in his few minutes than I ever saw from Wes or DWill. Dont forget he wasnt exactly a lottery pick so expectations should be tempered a bit. ( not a lottery pick to me anyways)

[kms789 [enjin:6694798]]

Its tough for me to know is Shabazz really is a selfish player when the situations he's been put in are difficult .
Hes either been put in with a large lead and playing along side scraps where hes expected to carry the burden of scoring or hes played when their so far behind that the team play philosphy goes out the window cuz most are out there just trying to get theirs and make an impression. When he has played in meaningful games hes shown great hussle, rebounds well and for the most part made good decisions on the floor. Which in turn as helped win a few of those games. I choose to look at those games.
Hes gritty, fights for loose balls and has a few nice moves on the left baseline as a springboard from which to work. He's shown more to me in his few minutes than I ever saw from Wes or DWill. Dont forget he wasnt exactly a lottery pick so expectations should be tempered a bit. ( not a lottery pick to me anyways)

That's true, especially the Wes/D-Will part

[WildWolf2813]

I think finding reasons to bash Shabazz despite the awful misuse of his time this season is ridiculous.

Putting it nicely, it's as if he has to redo his rookie season next year the way Adelman handled things.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Dieng and Shabazz have potential to be starters on this team. I actually do believe that.

on a good team? Deing yes, bazz no

Let's hear the argument. Why can't Bazz be a starting SF on a good team? Why does he not have the potential to be that? 21-year old player who when given significant minutes has been impressive.

doesn't pass, doesn't defend

Hmm. Two aspects of basketball that can be improved with more time. Go figure.

His defense isn't lacking energy or effort. He has the size, strength and length to guard most SFs in the NBA. Does his technique need improvement? Sure. I'm not arguing that, but does he have the potential to be good or at least average on defense in time.

Pekovic isn't a fantastic passer either and I believe you love him. Choosing favorites alex? As long as Shabazz isn't a blackhole on offense, he'll be fine. It's not like he'll be the primary scorer.

"Also, only uses left hand, almost all of his offense comes from the left block, and he shoots at a rate that rivals Durant." -- kms

I don't give a shit what hand he uses as long as he puts the ball in the hoop, which he's shown he can do at every level. He'll need to mix it up a little more going forward, but which hand he uses isn't the biggest issue with his scoring. It's that he sometimes pre-determines what move he's going to do instead of reacting to the defense.

There's a lot of players who have potential to be good defenders, Irving, Ellis, but never do. And If shabazz can get 18 points while shooting 56% like Pek does, then he doesn't have to pass.

In what world did either of those two have potential to be good defenders? Really pulled that opinion out your ass didn't you. Wow.

Pek shot 56% for practically half a season; don't use that in your favor. Regardless, it doesn't matter what Shabazz shoots from the field. People that don't like Shabazz will never change their argument, yourself included. I would have loved to know what you thought about Pekovic his first year when it looked questionable if he could even make it in the NBA. Now he's one of the guys you advocate for all the time.

Guess what. Pekovic came through on his potential. Ruling Shabazz and his potential out after a rookie season in which he didn't get all the minutes he deserved is pretty stupid.

Ill admit that after Pek's rookie season, I didn't see him coming close to the player he is today. With Bazz, we've herd that he's "the hardest worker in practice". Does that actually have substance or is it just PR babble? He's been pretty solid from that left block area, but thats really the only spot he's shown to do anything. Some of his other shots from other parts of the floor have been brutal airballs. If you put him as a starter right now, teams will actually scout him. Right now he seems pretty easy to scout. He's going to shoot from the left block and isn't going to pass. It was a lot of Dwill's problem too.

Also with bazz's offensive game, if you put him as a starter then what? Do you put Bazz in the block and take away that from Love/Pek/Deing?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Alex and KMS, That's the whole point of playing him - to help answer these questions we have about him and how he blends in with other players and adapts to opposing team's scouting reports. At this point we have nothing to lose. Darko, Flynn, Wes Johnson, and even Derrick Williams had plenty of game time for us to evaluate them. They built up a large enough sample size over time that, unfortunately, we lost hope that they could ever amount to much and then the front office moved on. We just don't know with Shabazz. And he's shown enough improvement in the limited game action he's seen lately that he deserves minutes.