KG is best Timberwolf PERIOD

[KG4Ever]

LOL. It was horrific trade. Lets not even pretend it was positive. Randle has negative value. It makes no sense to give up all our first round picks save one for Gobert and Dilly and then trade KAT for garbage to get out of a financial situation that TC put us in. TC, since taking over as GM here, has been a disaster. Fukk him and the other bozo in charge.

KAT is healthy now and not playing out of position and he's putting up top ten offensive stats and his plus/minus stats are better than any Wolf. He never was appreciated much by this clownboard.

You never answered the question. To keep KAT you then must next year remove NAW, Naz and DDV (plus Detroits pick). It's not a KAT plus everyone else, it's a KAT minus everyone else. The contract of KATs is an albatross itself. You also ignored the fact that his playoff numbers and performances in totality are trash. Credit he played good against PHO and DEN. What about the other trash performances like in the Mavs series and other 8 years of either missed playoffs or trash performances?

You should be bringing up the only worse playoff performer is Randle then KAT. He's gone hopefully soon though.

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

[kekgeek]

LOL. It was horrific trade. Lets not even pretend it was positive. Randle has negative value. It makes no sense to give up all our first round picks save one for Gobert and Dilly and then trade KAT for garbage to get out of a financial situation that TC put us in. TC, since taking over as GM here, has been a disaster. Fukk him and the other bozo in charge.

KAT is healthy now and not playing out of position and he's putting up top ten offensive stats and his plus/minus stats are better than any Wolf. He never was appreciated much by this clownboard.

You never answered the question. To keep KAT you then must next year remove NAW, Naz and DDV (plus Detroits pick). It's not a KAT plus everyone else, it's a KAT minus everyone else. The contract of KATs is an albatross itself. You also ignored the fact that his playoff numbers and performances in totality are trash. Credit he played good against PHO and DEN. What about the other trash performances like in the Mavs series and other 8 years of either missed playoffs or trash performances?

You should be bringing up the only worse playoff performer is Randle then KAT. He's gone hopefully soon though.

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

Rudy trade happened before the 2nd apron was a thing. The new CBA happened months later. We don’t know what lore/arod told Connelly about spending the lux tax. Because under the old rules Rudy/Kat/Ant and every other player could still be on the team with just a financially penalty not a roster construction standpoint. Also Arod/Lore were supposed to own the team right now, however Glen still owns the team and we don’t know if Glen wanted cut payroll, I mean the Glen saved 24 million of actual money doing this trade.

Also the players we traded for Rudy: Pat Bev (out of the league), Bolmaro (out of the league), Vando (getting MLE money to not play), Beasley (rotation piece on a average team), Kessler (fringe starter about to get paid)

So far the picks have been Keonte George who is one of the most in inefficient scorers in the league.

Ant, Kat, Mcdaniels, Naz, Conley still get their contract. I’ve done this before if the wolves don’t do the Rudy trade they would still be a first apron team and would be flirting with the 2nd apron next year.

Yes they would have had more“outs” with the picks but they would still be not in a good financial state but a far less of a talent roster.


This sucks right now but the context of past moves have changed and they still would be in a bad spot right now without trades

[Wolvesfan21]

LOL. It was horrific trade. Lets not even pretend it was positive. Randle has negative value. It makes no sense to give up all our first round picks save one for Gobert and Dilly and then trade KAT for garbage to get out of a financial situation that TC put us in. TC, since taking over as GM here, has been a disaster. Fukk him and the other bozo in charge.

KAT is healthy now and not playing out of position and he's putting up top ten offensive stats and his plus/minus stats are better than any Wolf. He never was appreciated much by this clownboard.

You never answered the question. To keep KAT you then must next year remove NAW, Naz and DDV (plus Detroits pick). It's not a KAT plus everyone else, it's a KAT minus everyone else. The contract of KATs is an albatross itself. You also ignored the fact that his playoff numbers and performances in totality are trash. Credit he played good against PHO and DEN. What about the other trash performances like in the Mavs series and other 8 years of either missed playoffs or trash performances?

You should be bringing up the only worse playoff performer is Randle then KAT. He's gone hopefully soon though.

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

I said you should bring up Randles playoff stats because they are worse then KAT's. But KAT's are trash also!!! KAT has never proven to be reliable in the playoffs and will again get exposed in them this year. Guess what happens? He fouls out or is in foul trouble and all his numbers go DOWN. Thus he isn't on the floor OR can't defend at all aggressively meaning he sucks ass on defense. Teams will once again target him in the playoffs and he will fail.

The move with bringing in Rudy and KAT at the 4 kept KAT out of foul trouble, from having to defend the rim for 40 minutes because he simply cannot do it. He's a nightmare waiting to happen when the games really matter IN the playoffs.

Now will the Knicks put in Mitchell Robinson at the 5 for long periods assuming he comes back healthy so they can play the two bigs? That's the only way I see this at all working. KAT cannot play the 5 the entire game in playoff series. Never worked before.

No one can argue the Rudy trade wasn't successful either. We went from not advancing in the playoffs for 20 years to making the WCF. It was because of the Rudy trade. Everyone already at crow for that one, those who said it was a bad trade.

[FNG]

Overheard at a table of Mormons in a Salt Lake City restaurant yesterday:

"Can you believe a couple of knuckleheads in Minnesota are still debating who won the Gobert trade? They won 58 games last season and went to the conference finals while we lost 51 games, and we're even worse this season...we're frickin' 7 and 20! I thought all those late first round draft picks plus Walker Kessler were supposed to make us better! Let's drink away our sorrows...oh wait, we're in Utah. That's it...I'm moving to Minnesota."

[Wolvesfan21]

Overheard at a table of Mormons in a Salt Lake City restaurant yesterday:

"Can you believe a couple of knuckleheads in Minnesota are still debating who won the Gobert trade? They won 58 games last season and went to the conference finals while we lost 51 games, and we're even worse this season...we're frickin' 7 and 20! I thought all those late first round draft picks plus Walker Kessler were supposed to make us better! Let's drink away our sorrows...oh wait, we're in Utah. That's it...I'm moving to Minnesota."

I think the "Rudy sucks" people simply like getting their ass beat in a self sabotage type of way. WE DESERVE TO WIN!!!

[Lipoli390]

You never answered the question. To keep KAT you then must next year remove NAW, Naz and DDV (plus Detroits pick). It's not a KAT plus everyone else, it's a KAT minus everyone else. The contract of KATs is an albatross itself. You also ignored the fact that his playoff numbers and performances in totality are trash. Credit he played good against PHO and DEN. What about the other trash performances like in the Mavs series and other 8 years of either missed playoffs or trash performances?

You should be bringing up the only worse playoff performer is Randle then KAT. He's gone hopefully soon though.

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

Rudy trade happened before the 2nd apron was a thing. The new CBA happened months later. We don’t know what lore/arod told Connelly about spending the lux tax. Because under the old rules Rudy/Kat/Ant and every other player could still be on the team with just a financially penalty not a roster construction standpoint. Also Arod/Lore were supposed to own the team right now, however Glen still owns the team and we don’t know if Glen wanted cut payroll, I mean the Glen saved 24 million of actual money doing this trade.

Also the players we traded for Rudy: Pat Bev (out of the league), Bolmaro (out of the league), Vando (getting MLE money to not play), Beasley (rotation piece on a average team), Kessler (fringe starter about to get paid)

So far the picks have been Keonte George who is one of the most in inefficient scorers in the league.

Ant, Kat, Mcdaniels, Naz, Conley still get their contract. I’ve done this before if the wolves don’t do the Rudy trade they would still be a first apron team and would be flirting with the 2nd apron next year.

Yes they would have had more“outs” with the picks but they would still be not in a good financial state but a far less of a talent roster.


This sucks right now but the context of past moves have changed and they still would be in a bad spot right now without trades

The few months between the Rudy trade and the new CBA doesn’t excuse the Gobert deal. First of all, let’s not pretend the 2nd apron hard cap came out of nowhere. The possibility of a hard cap was already circulating in the media. Obviously, NBA front office executives had to know that plus a lot more about the possibilities emerging from the CBA negotiations. Any NBA front office worth its salt had to have information on a potential second apron and the constraints that would be part of it. And even without the second apron in the new CBA, the financial constraints resulting from the Gobert deal were profound. One of my main criticisms of the deal at the time related to those financial constraints without knowing about the even worse limitations that would come with the 2nd apron.

The measure of the Rudy deal isn’t what each individual player traded away is now doing. The measure is how well this team is doing now relative to how it finished the season before we traded for Rudy AND what the Wolves could have done with all the assets (players and picks) they traded away. And that’s before you consider the resulting financial circumstances that led to the KAT trade. After giving up all those players and picks for Rudy, and putting the organization in salary cap hell, we will have had only one season in three where we finished with a better record than the season before Rudy arrived. Meanwhile, the trade caused the organization to give up the team’s only other perennial all-star for a paltry return, leaving us with a roster that constrains the talents of our best and only franchise player.

So our current situation does ultimately tie back to the Gobert deal. We no longer have KAT, but we still have the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA. And yet we have only the 15th best record (10th in the West). We’re on track to win 4 fewer games than we won the season before acquiring Rudy when Ant, Jaden and Naz were no where near the players they are now. The goal behind giving up all those assets for Rudy was to win a championship or at least become a sustainable championship contender. Neither goal has been achieved and an honest assessment tells us that neither is attainable without some major moves and considerable good luck. Meanwhile, we see the success of teams like OKC and Boston who didn’t bet the farm trading for a high-priced one-dimensional player, but instead built their core teams patiently and organically through the draft with strategic trades to close gaps and build around their core guys. The only team with a higher payroll than the Wolves is Phoenix and they’re currently one game behind the Wolves. Hmm.

I’ll add that the KAT deal was obviously not driven by the 2nd apron because we’re still over the second apron even after the deal. We could have kept KAT and gotten below the 2nd apron by letting Rudy walk after this season. So trading KAT wasn’t imperative for getting below the 2nd apron. Meanwhile, Rudy’s new deal balloons the team’s payroll for many years under what is likely an untradable contract until the February before it expires. The nature of Rudy’s game and his limitations in today’s NBA just doesn’t support the contract we just gave him. I hope I’m wrong because I’d like to believe trading Rudy for good return value is at least an option. But I don’t think it is. And he remains a poor fit for Ant 

[Wolvesfan21]

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

Rudy trade happened before the 2nd apron was a thing. The new CBA happened months later. We don’t know what lore/arod told Connelly about spending the lux tax. Because under the old rules Rudy/Kat/Ant and every other player could still be on the team with just a financially penalty not a roster construction standpoint. Also Arod/Lore were supposed to own the team right now, however Glen still owns the team and we don’t know if Glen wanted cut payroll, I mean the Glen saved 24 million of actual money doing this trade.

Also the players we traded for Rudy: Pat Bev (out of the league), Bolmaro (out of the league), Vando (getting MLE money to not play), Beasley (rotation piece on a average team), Kessler (fringe starter about to get paid)

So far the picks have been Keonte George who is one of the most in inefficient scorers in the league.

Ant, Kat, Mcdaniels, Naz, Conley still get their contract. I’ve done this before if the wolves don’t do the Rudy trade they would still be a first apron team and would be flirting with the 2nd apron next year.

Yes they would have had more“outs” with the picks but they would still be not in a good financial state but a far less of a talent roster.


This sucks right now but the context of past moves have changed and they still would be in a bad spot right now without trades

The few months between the Rudy trade and the new CBA doesn’t excuse the Gobert deal. First of all, let’s not pretend the 2nd apron hard cap came out of nowhere. The possibility of a hard cap was already circulating in the media. Obviously, NBA front office executives had to know that plus a lot more about the possibilities emerging from the CBA negotiations. Any NBA front office worth its salt had to have information on a potential second apron and the constraints that would be part of it. And even without the second apron in the new CBA, the financial constraints resulting from the Gobert deal were profound. One of my main criticisms of the deal at the time related to those financial constraints without knowing about the even worse limitations that would come with the 2nd apron.

The measure of the Rudy deal isn’t what each individual player traded away is now doing. The measure is how well this team is doing now relative to how it finished the season before we traded for Rudy AND what the Wolves could have done with all the assets (players and picks) they traded away. And that’s before you consider the resulting financial circumstances that led to the KAT trade. After giving up all those players and picks for Rudy, and putting the organization in salary cap hell, we will have had only one season in three where we finished with a better record than the season before Rudy arrived. Meanwhile, the trade caused the organization to give up the team’s only other perennial all-star for a paltry return, leaving us with a roster that constrains the talents of our best and only franchise player.

So our current situation does ultimately tie back to the Gobert deal. We no longer have KAT, but we still have the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA. And yet we have only the 15th best record (10th in the West). We’re on track to win 4 fewer games than we won the season before acquiring Rudy when Ant, Jaden and Naz were no where near the players they are now. The goal behind giving up all those assets for Rudy was to win a championship or at least become a sustainable championship contender. Neither goal has been achieved and an honest assessment tells us that neither is attainable without some major moves and considerable good luck. Meanwhile, we see the success of teams like OKC and Boston who didn’t bet the farm trading for a high-priced one-dimensional player, but instead built their core teams patiently and organically through the draft with strategic trades to close gaps and build around their core guys. The only team with a higher payroll than the Wolves is Phoenix and they’re currently one game behind the Wolves. Hmm.

I’ll add that the KAT deal was obviously not driven by the 2nd apron because we’re still over the second apron even after the deal. We could have kept KAT and gotten below the 2nd apron by letting Rudy walk after this season. So trading KAT wasn’t imperative for getting below the 2nd apron. Meanwhile, Rudy’s new deal balloons the team’s payroll for many years under what is likely an untradable contract until the February before it expires. The nature of Rudy’s game and his limitations in today’s NBA just doesn’t support the contract we just gave him. I hope I’m wrong because I’d like to believe trading Rudy for good return value is at least an option. But I don’t think it is. And he remains a poor fit for Ant 

KAT makes 50 mill going up to 60 mill in a few years. Rudy is at 35 mill and up to 38. That's 15-22 million difference basically per year. So say you can have Rudy and Naz (more or less depending on Naz's upcoming deal, in the ballpark anyways) or KAT and random vet min guy/Garza. I'd rather spread the money into two very solid players then one supermax guy who melts down way too often in the playoffs.

I'd rather have Rudy and Naz plus depth over KAT and Vet min guy/Garza/one of our young guys playing starter minutes.

[mjs34]

Julius Randle is older than KAT and his stats are trash. Lookup his playoff stats and comparitively, KAT's are gold.

Those players you listed all pale next to KAT and the roster challenges are TC's doing when he made the idiotic move to give away all our picks for Rudy and Dilly, whose time frames don't match. A bunch of mediocre players never add up to one great one.

Albatross contract? I disagree. KAT is highly paid but he produces at a high level. When TC came aboard the Wolves were in good capshape and had all their future first rounders. I don't remember anyone complaining about KAT getting paid before TC arrived. TC made the ill advised Gobert trade adding salary cap. He overpaid for Jalen and arguably also overpaid for Conley given his age and you could argue he overpaid for Naz, given how bad he is on defense and he's been a historical negative. However, if he had kept Kessler and not traded for Rudy, we could keep Conley, Naz and Naw too and we would have a lot of draft ammo to improve team.

Rudy trade happened before the 2nd apron was a thing. The new CBA happened months later. We don’t know what lore/arod told Connelly about spending the lux tax. Because under the old rules Rudy/Kat/Ant and every other player could still be on the team with just a financially penalty not a roster construction standpoint. Also Arod/Lore were supposed to own the team right now, however Glen still owns the team and we don’t know if Glen wanted cut payroll, I mean the Glen saved 24 million of actual money doing this trade.

Also the players we traded for Rudy: Pat Bev (out of the league), Bolmaro (out of the league), Vando (getting MLE money to not play), Beasley (rotation piece on a average team), Kessler (fringe starter about to get paid)

So far the picks have been Keonte George who is one of the most in inefficient scorers in the league.

Ant, Kat, Mcdaniels, Naz, Conley still get their contract. I’ve done this before if the wolves don’t do the Rudy trade they would still be a first apron team and would be flirting with the 2nd apron next year.

Yes they would have had more“outs” with the picks but they would still be not in a good financial state but a far less of a talent roster.


This sucks right now but the context of past moves have changed and they still would be in a bad spot right now without trades

The few months between the Rudy trade and the new CBA doesn’t excuse the Gobert deal. First of all, let’s not pretend the 2nd apron hard cap came out of nowhere. The possibility of a hard cap was already circulating in the media. Obviously, NBA front office executives had to know that plus a lot more about the possibilities emerging from the CBA negotiations. Any NBA front office worth its salt had to have information on a potential second apron and the constraints that would be part of it. And even without the second apron in the new CBA, the financial constraints resulting from the Gobert deal were profound. One of my main criticisms of the deal at the time related to those financial constraints without knowing about the even worse limitations that would come with the 2nd apron.

The measure of the Rudy deal isn’t what each individual player traded away is now doing. The measure is how well this team is doing now relative to how it finished the season before we traded for Rudy AND what the Wolves could have done with all the assets (players and picks) they traded away. And that’s before you consider the resulting financial circumstances that led to the KAT trade. After giving up all those players and picks for Rudy, and putting the organization in salary cap hell, we will have had only one season in three where we finished with a better record than the season before Rudy arrived. Meanwhile, the trade caused the organization to give up the team’s only other perennial all-star for a paltry return, leaving us with a roster that constrains the talents of our best and only franchise player.

So our current situation does ultimately tie back to the Gobert deal. We no longer have KAT, but we still have the 2nd highest payroll in the NBA. And yet we have only the 15th best record (10th in the West). We’re on track to win 4 fewer games than we won the season before acquiring Rudy when Ant, Jaden and Naz were no where near the players they are now. The goal behind giving up all those assets for Rudy was to win a championship or at least become a sustainable championship contender. Neither goal has been achieved and an honest assessment tells us that neither is attainable without some major moves and considerable good luck. Meanwhile, we see the success of teams like OKC and Boston who didn’t bet the farm trading for a high-priced one-dimensional player, but instead built their core teams patiently and organically through the draft with strategic trades to close gaps and build around their core guys. The only team with a higher payroll than the Wolves is Phoenix and they’re currently one game behind the Wolves. Hmm.

I’ll add that the KAT deal was obviously not driven by the 2nd apron because we’re still over the second apron even after the deal. We could have kept KAT and gotten below the 2nd apron by letting Rudy walk after this season. So trading KAT wasn’t imperative for getting below the 2nd apron. Meanwhile, Rudy’s new deal balloons the team’s payroll for many years under what is likely an untradable contract until the February before it expires. The nature of Rudy’s game and his limitations in today’s NBA just doesn’t support the contract we just gave him. I hope I’m wrong because I’d like to believe trading Rudy for good return value is at least an option. But I don’t think it is. And he remains a poor fit for Ant 

Lip, I couldn't not have said it better myself. We finally got two top 25 players and had all our picks to build the team out, and Connnelly comes in and destroys it in one move. Then trades KAT for nothing to seal the deal on Ant's future.