Naz or Randle. Can't have both.

[60WinTim]

I was thinking the same thing, Conley is starting to look pretty cooked, is he still bothered with the wrist?

If the team isn't firing on all cylinders in another month or so it would be time to see if a Randle trade is out there along with bumping up the young guys into more playing time even starting (Dilly over Conley possibly to inject scoring).

My other worry with Randle is if he decides to opt in next year and we then potentially lose one or both of NAW and Naz because of Randles salary. Is there an expiring for Randle that makes some sense which then simply opens up minutes for the young guys and gives us better chance of retaining Naz and NAW?

I just like the potential of the young guys and this season is starting to feel more like a non contending team (Boston and OKC look so good and I am having a hard time seeing us beating both even if things do start to click).

At what point do you prioritize the future over the current? Those young guys could really surprise also and a Randle trade
could really open up the offense for Ant and others too. DDV struggling and Naz not exactly firing on offense. I can potentially see a top 5 offense if things go right. With Randle just ISO ball, sure it's decently effective. However it feels like it inhibits the offense from being better at the same time.

The other thing I was thinking was with Conley playing poor and Ant getting doubled. Like WTF are we suppose to do? Jaden and Rudy are obviously not great options. Even if Conley just started playing like last year we'd be in decent shape on offense. Time will tell.

I want to emphasize a point you made, Wolvesfan21. You mentioned your worry that we’d lose one or both of NAW and Naz if Randle opts in. I’ll just add that there’s no if in this equation. Julius Randle absolutely will opt in since there is not team out there that will give him that much money as a free agent. That’s why I’m absolutely convinced we need to trade him by the February deadline. We won’t be able to trade Randle after the season because the Wolves are over the 2nd apron which means they can’t sign-and-trade of of their players. As a result, Randle will opt in and we won’t be able to sign Naz and probably won’t her able to sign NAW either.

Unfortunately, the rest of the League is aware of the Wolves predicament. Moreover, Randle is not a coveted asset. Consequently, we’ll probably have to attached the Detroit pick we received for KAT to entice a team to take Randle in exchange for an expiring contract. That’s the best we’ll be able to do — i.e., trading Randle plus the Detroit pick in exchange for an expiring contract for payroll room to re-sign Naz and possibly re-sign NAW.

Even if we pull all that off, re-signing both Naz and NAW and getting below the 2nd apron threshold, we’ll still be well over the salary cap with limited draft assets. That’s why it’s so important to start getting good looks at Minott, Dilly and TSJ (maybe also Miller and Clark) in meaningful NBA minutes. We need to get a better sense of their potential and also give them the opportunity to develop through real game experience. I’d like to see this happen sooner rather than later. I don’t think we have to wait until early February to know that this Wolves team is NOT going to contend for a championship. At best, this team will end up in the 7th or 8th position after competing in the play-in tournament.

To be fair... are we certain THAT much has changed?

Back in October, there were reports that Randle would probably opt out and look for something like a 3/$100M deal. (basically an extension of his current deal)

Or last April, there was speculation he might seek a 4 year/$160M deal. In September, speculation was that he'd want (and earned) at least as much as Jarrett Allen ($30M)... and that signing as a FA for around $20M was too low.

I know Wolves fans are on a heater ripping the guy (justifiably). I just don't know if his value around the league is as low as many of us believe. Has it dropped THAT much in 25 games?

And to expand on Abe's point... Randle's numbers are just fine. He hasn't quite replaced KAT's numbers, but they aren't that far off.

If you compare numbers from this year's team to last year's team, Conley and Naz have fallen off a cliff. Which pretty much tells the story of our offensive woes. Is Randle the source of their diminished offensive prowess?

[Wolvesfan21]

I want to emphasize a point you made, Wolvesfan21. You mentioned your worry that we’d lose one or both of NAW and Naz if Randle opts in. I’ll just add that there’s no if in this equation. Julius Randle absolutely will opt in since there is not team out there that will give him that much money as a free agent. That’s why I’m absolutely convinced we need to trade him by the February deadline. We won’t be able to trade Randle after the season because the Wolves are over the 2nd apron which means they can’t sign-and-trade of of their players. As a result, Randle will opt in and we won’t be able to sign Naz and probably won’t her able to sign NAW either.

Unfortunately, the rest of the League is aware of the Wolves predicament. Moreover, Randle is not a coveted asset. Consequently, we’ll probably have to attached the Detroit pick we received for KAT to entice a team to take Randle in exchange for an expiring contract. That’s the best we’ll be able to do — i.e., trading Randle plus the Detroit pick in exchange for an expiring contract for payroll room to re-sign Naz and possibly re-sign NAW.

Even if we pull all that off, re-signing both Naz and NAW and getting below the 2nd apron threshold, we’ll still be well over the salary cap with limited draft assets. That’s why it’s so important to start getting good looks at Minott, Dilly and TSJ (maybe also Miller and Clark) in meaningful NBA minutes. We need to get a better sense of their potential and also give them the opportunity to develop through real game experience. I’d like to see this happen sooner rather than later. I don’t think we have to wait until early February to know that this Wolves team is NOT going to contend for a championship. At best, this team will end up in the 7th or 8th position after competing in the play-in tournament.

To be fair... are we certain THAT much has changed?

Back in October, there were reports that Randle would probably opt out and look for something like a 3/$100M deal. (basically an extension of his current deal)

Or last April, there was speculation he might seek a 4 year/$160M deal. In September, speculation was that he'd want (and earned) at least as much as Jarrett Allen ($30M)... and that signing as a FA for around $20M was too low.

I know Wolves fans are on a heater ripping the guy (justifiably). I just don't know if his value around the league is as low as many of us believe. Has it dropped THAT much in 25 games?

And to expand on Abe's point... Randle's numbers are just fine. He hasn't quite replaced KAT's numbers, but they aren't that far off.

If you compare numbers from this year's team to last year's team, Conley and Naz have fallen off a cliff. Which pretty much tells the story of our offensive woes. Is Randle the source of their diminished offensive prowess?

I would say yes to some extent. Randle doesn't move the ball quick or in rhythm. It's more static and his guy also sags off of him so his defender is in the lane a lot which obviously hurts driving lanes. I would say yes, Randle has been bad for both the offense and defense compared to KAT. I just think it's hard for a guy to stand in the corner for 20 seconds then be asked to shoot. No ball movement, player movement, no rhythm to the offense. It looks clunky.

I mentioned prior to the season I would like to see Randle sit in the corner most of the time. But that isn't helping himself get touches/get more points/chance for a bigger payday. It's a selfish type of motivation that is hurting us. I think him in the corner solves more of the spacing, he's been a reliable corner three guy like last year shot over 50% from there.

The two roles which helps the team I believe are Randle as a 6th man get us some buckets, play some hard D or start and sit in the corner so Ant can work, play some hard D. Neither of which really helps a former All Star in HIS MIND get paid. What he is doing now though certainly isn't helping to win games. (ISO ball hog, lane clogger, lazy defense). I think is also hurting his paycheck.

I think what would really raise his pay if he could show everyone he can be more flexible on offense. Play hard D and be a good teammate.

[Lipoli390]

I was thinking the same thing, Conley is starting to look pretty cooked, is he still bothered with the wrist?

If the team isn't firing on all cylinders in another month or so it would be time to see if a Randle trade is out there along with bumping up the young guys into more playing time even starting (Dilly over Conley possibly to inject scoring).

My other worry with Randle is if he decides to opt in next year and we then potentially lose one or both of NAW and Naz because of Randles salary. Is there an expiring for Randle that makes some sense which then simply opens up minutes for the young guys and gives us better chance of retaining Naz and NAW?

I just like the potential of the young guys and this season is starting to feel more like a non contending team (Boston and OKC look so good and I am having a hard time seeing us beating both even if things do start to click).

At what point do you prioritize the future over the current? Those young guys could really surprise also and a Randle trade
could really open up the offense for Ant and others too. DDV struggling and Naz not exactly firing on offense. I can potentially see a top 5 offense if things go right. With Randle just ISO ball, sure it's decently effective. However it feels like it inhibits the offense from being better at the same time.

The other thing I was thinking was with Conley playing poor and Ant getting doubled. Like WTF are we suppose to do? Jaden and Rudy are obviously not great options. Even if Conley just started playing like last year we'd be in decent shape on offense. Time will tell.

I want to emphasize a point you made, Wolvesfan21. You mentioned your worry that we’d lose one or both of NAW and Naz if Randle opts in. I’ll just add that there’s no if in this equation. Julius Randle absolutely will opt in since there is not team out there that will give him that much money as a free agent. That’s why I’m absolutely convinced we need to trade him by the February deadline. We won’t be able to trade Randle after the season because the Wolves are over the 2nd apron which means they can’t sign-and-trade of of their players. As a result, Randle will opt in and we won’t be able to sign Naz and probably won’t her able to sign NAW either.

Unfortunately, the rest of the League is aware of the Wolves predicament. Moreover, Randle is not a coveted asset. Consequently, we’ll probably have to attached the Detroit pick we received for KAT to entice a team to take Randle in exchange for an expiring contract. That’s the best we’ll be able to do — i.e., trading Randle plus the Detroit pick in exchange for an expiring contract for payroll room to re-sign Naz and possibly re-sign NAW.

Even if we pull all that off, re-signing both Naz and NAW and getting below the 2nd apron threshold, we’ll still be well over the salary cap with limited draft assets. That’s why it’s so important to start getting good looks at Minott, Dilly and TSJ (maybe also Miller and Clark) in meaningful NBA minutes. We need to get a better sense of their potential and also give them the opportunity to develop through real game experience. I’d like to see this happen sooner rather than later. I don’t think we have to wait until early February to know that this Wolves team is NOT going to contend for a championship. At best, this team will end up in the 7th or 8th position after competing in the play-in tournament.

To be fair... are we certain THAT much has changed?

Back in October, there were reports that Randle would probably opt out and look for something like a 3/$100M deal. (basically an extension of his current deal)

Or last April, there was speculation he might seek a 4 year/$160M deal. In September, speculation was that he'd want (and earned) at least as much as Jarrett Allen ($30M)... and that signing as a FA for around $20M was too low.

I know Wolves fans are on a heater ripping the guy (justifiably). I just don't know if his value around the league is as low as many of us believe. Has it dropped THAT much in 25 games?

Speculation about what Randle “might seek” or what “he’d want” in previous years doesn’t tell us much about his market value around the League right now or next summer. I’ve never read reports about any team converting him and I know there were reports the Knicks wanted to trade him a couple years ago but couldn’t find any suitors who would give them a decent return. Whatever his value was, it will be even lower after the season if it ends the way it’s headed because it will further reinforce the rap on Randle as an individual stats guy who doesn’t help his team win. I just don’t see him as a guy a team will sign for over $30 million per season. Hope I’m wrong, but pretty sure I’m right.

His trade value this season is rock bottom. If the Wolves try to unload him before the February deadline, which is the only way they can move him, the Wolves will have to give him away. That’s true simply because the rest of the League will realize the Wolves have no leverage as a 2nd apron team desperately trying to get him off their books, facing huge 2nd apron constraints the substantially limited the number of potential suitors apart from the perception of Randle as a player.

Randle is set to get $31 million next season if he opts in. If he’s still here after the season, he’ll opt in.

[rapsuperstar31]

I want to emphasize a point you made, Wolvesfan21. You mentioned your worry that we’d lose one or both of NAW and Naz if Randle opts in. I’ll just add that there’s no if in this equation. Julius Randle absolutely will opt in since there is not team out there that will give him that much money as a free agent. That’s why I’m absolutely convinced we need to trade him by the February deadline. We won’t be able to trade Randle after the season because the Wolves are over the 2nd apron which means they can’t sign-and-trade of of their players. As a result, Randle will opt in and we won’t be able to sign Naz and probably won’t her able to sign NAW either.

Unfortunately, the rest of the League is aware of the Wolves predicament. Moreover, Randle is not a coveted asset. Consequently, we’ll probably have to attached the Detroit pick we received for KAT to entice a team to take Randle in exchange for an expiring contract. That’s the best we’ll be able to do — i.e., trading Randle plus the Detroit pick in exchange for an expiring contract for payroll room to re-sign Naz and possibly re-sign NAW.

Even if we pull all that off, re-signing both Naz and NAW and getting below the 2nd apron threshold, we’ll still be well over the salary cap with limited draft assets. That’s why it’s so important to start getting good looks at Minott, Dilly and TSJ (maybe also Miller and Clark) in meaningful NBA minutes. We need to get a better sense of their potential and also give them the opportunity to develop through real game experience. I’d like to see this happen sooner rather than later. I don’t think we have to wait until early February to know that this Wolves team is NOT going to contend for a championship. At best, this team will end up in the 7th or 8th position after competing in the play-in tournament.

To be fair... are we certain THAT much has changed?

Back in October, there were reports that Randle would probably opt out and look for something like a 3/$100M deal. (basically an extension of his current deal)

Or last April, there was speculation he might seek a 4 year/$160M deal. In September, speculation was that he'd want (and earned) at least as much as Jarrett Allen ($30M)... and that signing as a FA for around $20M was too low.

I know Wolves fans are on a heater ripping the guy (justifiably). I just don't know if his value around the league is as low as many of us believe. Has it dropped THAT much in 25 games?

Speculation about what Randle “might seek” or what “he’d want” in previous years doesn’t tell us much about his market value around the League right now or next summer. I’ve never read reports about any team converting him and I know there were reports the Knicks wanted to trade him a couple years ago but couldn’t find any suitors who would give them a decent return. Whatever his value was, it will be even lower after the season if it ends the way it’s headed because it will further reinforce the rap on Randle as an individual stats guy who doesn’t help his team win. I just don’t see him as a guy a team will sign for over $30 million per season. Hope I’m wrong, but pretty sure I’m right.

His trade value this season is rock bottom. If the Wolves try to unload him before the February deadline, which is the only way they can move him, the Wolves will have to give him away. That’s true simply because the rest of the League will realize the Wolves have no leverage as a 2nd apron team desperately trying to get him off their books, facing huge 2nd apron constraints the substantially limited the number of potential suitors apart from the perception of Randle as a player.

Randle is set to get $31 million next season if he opts in. If he’s still here after the season, he’ll opt in.

It doesn't help that there aren't many teams in free agency with significant cap space this summer. I believe the only teams with more than 30 million to offer are Brooklyn and Washington. Brooklyn has enough to offer a max and than some. Houston could open the cap space if they declined VanLeet's team option. Brooklyn and Houston could be trouble in going after Naz or NAW this summer. Randle seems in that Brandon Ingram territory, where a few years ago they may have gotten the max contract but with the new tax apron ramifications it's not going to happen. Ingram wants' the max and apparently rejected 50 million per year offered in 2023 which New Orleans dropped to 40 million this summer which he rejected again. Paul George should have been in that discussion, but he suckered Philly into giving him the max. I do think you could get back long term salary like Jerami Grant, but I don't see us doing that after trading Kat away.

[Wolvesfan21]

I want to emphasize a point you made, Wolvesfan21. You mentioned your worry that we’d lose one or both of NAW and Naz if Randle opts in. I’ll just add that there’s no if in this equation. Julius Randle absolutely will opt in since there is not team out there that will give him that much money as a free agent. That’s why I’m absolutely convinced we need to trade him by the February deadline. We won’t be able to trade Randle after the season because the Wolves are over the 2nd apron which means they can’t sign-and-trade of of their players. As a result, Randle will opt in and we won’t be able to sign Naz and probably won’t her able to sign NAW either.

Unfortunately, the rest of the League is aware of the Wolves predicament. Moreover, Randle is not a coveted asset. Consequently, we’ll probably have to attached the Detroit pick we received for KAT to entice a team to take Randle in exchange for an expiring contract. That’s the best we’ll be able to do — i.e., trading Randle plus the Detroit pick in exchange for an expiring contract for payroll room to re-sign Naz and possibly re-sign NAW.

Even if we pull all that off, re-signing both Naz and NAW and getting below the 2nd apron threshold, we’ll still be well over the salary cap with limited draft assets. That’s why it’s so important to start getting good looks at Minott, Dilly and TSJ (maybe also Miller and Clark) in meaningful NBA minutes. We need to get a better sense of their potential and also give them the opportunity to develop through real game experience. I’d like to see this happen sooner rather than later. I don’t think we have to wait until early February to know that this Wolves team is NOT going to contend for a championship. At best, this team will end up in the 7th or 8th position after competing in the play-in tournament.

To be fair... are we certain THAT much has changed?

Back in October, there were reports that Randle would probably opt out and look for something like a 3/$100M deal. (basically an extension of his current deal)

Or last April, there was speculation he might seek a 4 year/$160M deal. In September, speculation was that he'd want (and earned) at least as much as Jarrett Allen ($30M)... and that signing as a FA for around $20M was too low.

I know Wolves fans are on a heater ripping the guy (justifiably). I just don't know if his value around the league is as low as many of us believe. Has it dropped THAT much in 25 games?

Speculation about what Randle “might seek” or what “he’d want” in previous years doesn’t tell us much about his market value around the League right now or next summer. I’ve never read reports about any team converting him and I know there were reports the Knicks wanted to trade him a couple years ago but couldn’t find any suitors who would give them a decent return. Whatever his value was, it will be even lower after the season if it ends the way it’s headed because it will further reinforce the rap on Randle as an individual stats guy who doesn’t help his team win. I just don’t see him as a guy a team will sign for over $30 million per season. Hope I’m wrong, but pretty sure I’m right.

His trade value this season is rock bottom. If the Wolves try to unload him before the February deadline, which is the only way they can move him, the Wolves will have to give him away. That’s true simply because the rest of the League will realize the Wolves have no leverage as a 2nd apron team desperately trying to get him off their books, facing huge 2nd apron constraints the substantially limited the number of potential suitors apart from the perception of Randle as a player.

Randle is set to get $31 million next season if he opts in. If he’s still here after the season, he’ll opt in.

I agree with you and the last poster. Randle has done nothing to show he can be a great team player and winning player with this team which then in turn actually hurts his value, despite putting up numbers. WINNING is what counts.

I think if we don't trade him for some reason then he does opt in and we're a bit screwed. We could still trade him next year since he would then be a lock expiring, versus this year.

I was thinking we have a few options for trades-

-Either plan to try and keep both NAW and Naz by trading Randle for expiring deal/s. Possibly a decent PF/C and/or PG is what I feel we need.

-Take back a longer term salary guy or guys who you may like better with a Randle trade (throw in pick or picks) and let NAW and Naz walk. (Conley is short term so even if Dilly works out we still need another guy to step up) (Losing Randle also opens up a spot for a backup PF/C). I prefer option 1 but then you are sort of at the mercy of those players resigning and wanting to come back. A bit more risk versus trading back for salaried guys but then those salaried guys are more unknowns in your system/team.

-Third option, let Randle opt in a trade him next year. Seems like the worst option as developing a roster but might net a little more in a trade as his value could be a bit better?

[60WinTim]

There has been recent talk among players and media about Randle adjusting his role to what the Wolves need, which can arguably be why he has been on triple-double watch the last two games. I use to dream about KAT being a triple double threat, but it never materialized. If Randle continues his current trend, there might be something there that could be help this team's offense.

It seems to me the Wolves will give this team a chance to develop, at least thru the trade deadline. The premise of the thread title still holds: "Naz or Randle. Can't have both." Although I think the primary reason is financial.

I know Randle is unpopular thus far, but it kind of has similar vibes as Rudy's first year. The best case scenario is a new-look Randle helps this team start winning. It would open the door for retaining him long-term, or at least increase his trade value heading into the deadline.

[kekgeek]

Doogie said on skor north today that Naz is going to get “a significant amount more than Jaden got this summer”

if that is the case you let him walk

[60WinTim]

Doogie said on skor north today that Naz is going to get “a significant amount more than Jaden got this summer”

if that is the case you let him walk

Agreed.

My gut tells me the Wolves will work out a reasonable extension for Randle, but will have no room to sign NAZ or NAW. This opens the door for guys like Miller, Minott and/or Garza to find roles on next year's team to fill NAZ's minutes. And Dilly, Shannon and/or Clark will find roles to fill NAW's minutes, not to mention a potential increase in DDV's minutes.

[Phenom]

Doogie said on skor north today that Naz is going to get “a significant amount more than Jaden got this summer”

if that is the case you let him walk

Agreed.

My gut tells me the Wolves will work out a reasonable extension for Randle, but will have no room to sign NAZ or NAW. This opens the door for guys like Miller, Minott and/or Garza to find roles on next year's team to fill NAZ's minutes. And Dilly, Shannon and/or Clark will find roles to fill NAW's minutes, not to mention a potential increase in DDV's minutes.

I can only imagine the narratives if that comes to pass. Trade Karl for more financial flexibility but let Naz AND NAW walk.

Doogie had never really had a pulse on future contact numbers. Jaden averages just over 26 million per year. Is significantly more 30 million per? Is that realistic in the current FA climate where larger dollar deals are mostly reserved for players staying put?

Spotrac is projecting 2 true cap space teams, Brooklyn and Washington. Only Brooklyn could offer Naz a significant raise from what Jaden makes. I wouldn't start romanticizing your favorite Naz Reid memories quite yet.

[60WinTim]

Doogie said on skor north today that Naz is going to get “a significant amount more than Jaden got this summer”

if that is the case you let him walk

Agreed.

My gut tells me the Wolves will work out a reasonable extension for Randle, but will have no room to sign NAZ or NAW. This opens the door for guys like Miller, Minott and/or Garza to find roles on next year's team to fill NAZ's minutes. And Dilly, Shannon and/or Clark will find roles to fill NAW's minutes, not to mention a potential increase in DDV's minutes.

I can only imagine the narratives if that comes to pass. Trade Karl for more financial flexibility but let Naz AND NAW walk.

Doogie had never really had a pulse on future contact numbers. Jaden averages just over 26 million per year. Is significantly more 30 million per? Is that realistic in the current FA climate where larger dollar deals are mostly reserved for players staying put?

Spotrac is projecting 2 true cap space teams, Brooklyn and Washington. Only Brooklyn could offer Naz a significant raise from what Jaden makes. I wouldn't start romanticizing your favorite Naz Reid memories quite yet.

The thing is... "Financial flexibility" for the Wolves simply means "shedding salary", since maintaining salaries over 200 mil is not possible. NAZ and NAW were goners if KAT was still here. But even with the KAT trade, NAZ and NAW are still likely goners, although the Wolves now have the financial ability to keep one of Randle, NAZ and NAW (plus they retain the services of DDV). Of course, Randle could force their hand by picking up his option. But I think it far more likely that they work out an extension.