Wolves Non-Durant Trade Ideas

[KG4Ever]

I got another one I like (I mentioned it a while back):

Randle for Vucevic and Ball. NAZ gets promoted to starting PF. Ball becomes Dilly's "bridge" PG, with Conley providing what ever is called for. Vucevic adds the 3-point shooting and rebounding that we did not get from Randle. Gives time for Miller and/or our rookie to get some minutes at PF, plus Jaden may get more minutes at PF, too.

Well, I guess I have to be the one to poke a hole in this one!

I like the starting lineup, assuming Ball is healthy, which is a big if: Rudy, Naz, Jaden, Ant, Ball. That is a big, defensively versatile lineup that could play a number of different coverages. Offensively I feel like Jaden gets more touches. We'd really need Ball's 3-ball to return to form to help space the floor, but Naz is > Randle in that regard as well, so that helps.

Vucevic though...not sure about the fit. He has never been known for playing good defense and he'd be out there with Dillingham. That is a pretty soft defensive pairing at PG and C. And he has been a starter for many years now, so not sure what this kind of shift does to his mentality.

I think Vooch can still log quality minutes. I watched him play a lot last year and there is still a lot to like about his game. He passes very well for a big, very good rebounder, good screen setter and he doesn't turn the ball over a lot. He has soft hands and great foot work and has good range. He's pretty good at the three ball. He's just a bit slow footed as a defender, but I don't think he's any worse defender than Randle or Naz. Very high IQ player. If we had Vooch, Naz and Gobert, I think each of them could log 28 minutes or more.

[Lipoli390]

I got another one I like (I mentioned it a while back):

Randle for Vucevic and Ball. NAZ gets promoted to starting PF. Ball becomes Dilly's "bridge" PG, with Conley providing what ever is called for. Vucevic adds the 3-point shooting and rebounding that we did not get from Randle. Gives time for Miller and/or our rookie to get some minutes at PF, plus Jaden may get more minutes at PF, too.

Well, I guess I have to be the one to poke a hole in this one!

I like the starting lineup, assuming Ball is healthy, which is a big if: Rudy, Naz, Jaden, Ant, Ball. That is a big, defensively versatile lineup that could play a number of different coverages. Offensively I feel like Jaden gets more touches. We'd really need Ball's 3-ball to return to form to help space the floor, but Naz is > Randle in that regard as well, so that helps.

Vucevic though...not sure about the fit. He has never been known for playing good defense and he'd be out there with Dillingham. That is a pretty soft defensive pairing at PG and C. And he has been a starter for many years now, so not sure what this kind of shift does to his mentality.

Q - I think you’ve identified the two issues with the deal - (1) Ball’s health; and (2) Vucevic’s defense. But I’d still love the deal.

Regarding Ball, he played well when he returned last season so there reason to believe he’s put the knee issue behind him for the most part. So I think the risk level associated with Ball is moderate. Moreover, risk consequences are minimal since he has only 1 year left on his deal at a relatively cheap $10M and with Conley, Donte and Dilly here, we wouldn’t be counting on Ball. Regarding Vucevic’s defense, I don’t think it’s terrible. I know you don’t like defensive rating, but I’ll cite it anyway and point out that he had a 113.4 defensive rating - about the same as Randle’s and much better than Durant’s. . More importantly, he’s the sort wouldn’t be a starter and we could compensate for his defensive limitations by effectively managing who’s on the court with him. He doesn’t have to be out there with Dilly a lot.

I’ll add that I would expect some draft compensation in return. Randle is FAR more valuable (and much younger) than Vucevic and Ball is a question mark who doesn’t seem to make sense at all for the Bulls.

[KG4Ever]

Lip, I was thinking we'd have to give up the pick not the other way around, but maybe we won't have to offer any picks but not sure Chicago has any interest in Randle if we didn't give them pick 31, a future second or perhaps Minott if he has any value. Ball is a stud if he can play in the playoffs and Vooch is still a very good player and earns much less than Randle. In fact, Vooch's VORP and BPM are a lot better than Randle's. I trust Vooch's defense more than I do Randle's. Also, Randle turns the ball over much more than Vooch and OKC will exploit that. Vooch despite being older than Randle has been healthier and I think his game ages well as he is a very high IQ player, with great footwork and soft touch and he has never relied on his athleticism. Didn't Duncan's game age well?. Give me Vooch and Ball and honestly Randle is kind of standing in the way of developing Jaden and some others, so a bit of addition by subtraction by trading Randle.

[rapsuperstar31]

If Durant doesn't end up in Miami, they have been linked to Randle in the past as well, if we need to make any multi team trades with Miami and Chicago or any other teams.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, I was thinking we'd have to give up the pick not the other way around, but maybe we won't have to offer any picks but not sure Chicago has any interest in Randle if we didn't give them pick 31, a future second or perhaps Minott if he has any value. Ball is a stud if he can play in the playoffs and Vooch is still a very good player and earns much less than Randle. In fact, Vooch's VORP and BPM are a lot better than Randle's. I trust Vooch's defense more than I do Randle's. Also, Randle turns the ball over much more than Vooch and OKC will exploit that. Vooch despite being older than Randle has been healthier and I think his game ages well as he is a very high IQ player, with great footwork and soft touch and he has never relied on his athleticism. Didn't Duncan's game age well?. Give me Vooch and Ball and honestly Randle is kind of standing in the way of developing Jaden and some others, so a bit of addition by subtraction by trading Randle.

I agree with your assessment of Vooch and a fully healthy Ball. But I think Randle’s market value is much higher than Vooch’s and Ball’s health is a big question mark. Randle’s ability to score the ball in different ways and also pass make him a compelling offensive option for a team well beyond what Vooch is. We shouldn’t give up draft capital for the likes of Vooch and Ball. I’d throw in Minott and Garza but that’s it.

[KG4Ever]

I heard on Doogie's podcast about possibly signing and trading NAW to Chicago for Ball. That is another interesting idea.

[KG4Ever]

Lip, I was thinking we'd have to give up the pick not the other way around, but maybe we won't have to offer any picks but not sure Chicago has any interest in Randle if we didn't give them pick 31, a future second or perhaps Minott if he has any value. Ball is a stud if he can play in the playoffs and Vooch is still a very good player and earns much less than Randle. In fact, Vooch's VORP and BPM are a lot better than Randle's. I trust Vooch's defense more than I do Randle's. Also, Randle turns the ball over much more than Vooch and OKC will exploit that. Vooch despite being older than Randle has been healthier and I think his game ages well as he is a very high IQ player, with great footwork and soft touch and he has never relied on his athleticism. Didn't Duncan's game age well?. Give me Vooch and Ball and honestly Randle is kind of standing in the way of developing Jaden and some others, so a bit of addition by subtraction by trading Randle.

I agree with your assessment of Vooch and a fully healthy Ball. But I think Randle’s market value is much higher than Vooch’s and Ball’s health is a big question mark. Randle’s ability to score the ball in different ways and also pass make him a compelling offensive option for a team well beyond what Vooch is. We shouldn’t give up draft capital for the likes of Vooch and Ball. I’d throw in Minott and Garza but that’s it.

I do know that Golden State wanted Vooch last year, but Chicago wanted a first and a trade never happened. I think Vooch's salary is a relative bargain at 20M for his current production and when combined with what Ball makes, you could have both for price of Randle. I keep reading on different sites, that no team would want Randle at his current salary and nobody expects Randle to get a better offer than his current option. So, what team or teams would value Randle enough for us to get some assets back?

[kekgeek]

I heard on Doogie's podcast about possibly signing and trading NAW to Chicago for Ball. That is another interesting idea.

That’s a possibility but Naw will want to go Chicago.

[KG4Ever]

I think Vooch would be a good fit playing with Jaden. Vooch is a better rim protector than Naz but his weakness is that he's slow footed (a bit like KAT but he's a smarter defender and holds space better). Vooch mainly plays with a bunch of guards where he is the only rim protector with little help. Based on minutes played, it was Coby White, Josh Giddey, Ayo Dosunmu and Zach Lavine (and after he was traded, Kevin Huerter or Tre Jones). The biggest dude that was in rotation with Vooch is 6"7 Patrick Williams (until Buzelis got in the lineup). Playing with Jaden, I think Vooch with his size, IQ, rebounding and shot blocking skills, will be a decent defensive upgrade to Naz when Rudy sits. I'd like to see C and PF manned by Rudy at center, Naz only at PF, and Vooch can play center with Naz or PF with Rudy. I'd also like Jaden out there much of the time when Rudy sits.

[kekgeek]

Rumors today are the Jazz are trying to trade Sexton and Clarkson. Also previous reports are the Jazz are sick of taking and want to improve this offseason.

With that said thoughts on
Jazz get Randle, DDV, 17, (maybe 31)

For

Wolves get Sexton, Collins, #5

Jazz get two win now vets that can help them improve what is reported they want to do also they don’t trade out of the draft.


Wolves get a potential PG of the future in Sexton (I’m high on Sexton), get a solid forward in Collins and the wolves get a high upside swing at 5.