Around the NBA:2025-6

[Q-is-here]

I always go back to Killian Hayes as a counter to the Lip Doctrine or three Ps or whatever you want to call it!

He was the #7 pick in the 2020 draft after playing professionally as a teenager in Europe. Over the next few years he got PLENTY of playing time with Detroit, much to their detriment as a team. Now at age 25 he's toiling in the G-League after failing to land a second contract.

Right now Dillingham is probably more likely to go the route of Hayes if we're being honest with ourselves. It's very rare to see a second year player struggle offensively as much as Dilly has. He might be setting an NBA record in terms of his 40 TS%.

Having said that, I kind of agree with Lip that we almost have no choice but to stick with him for now, but my version of that is down in the G-League. And may be, just may be he rediscovers his offense.

[Lipoli390]

I always go back to Killian Hayes as a counter to the Lip Doctrine or three Ps or whatever you want to call it!

He was the #7 pick in the 2020 draft after playing professionally as a teenager in Europe. Over the next few years he got PLENTY of playing time with Detroit, much to their detriment as a team. Now at age 25 he's toiling in the G-League after failing to land a second contract.

Right now Dillingham is probably more likely to go the route of Hayes if we're being honest with ourselves. It's very rare to see a second year player struggle offensively as much as Dilly has. He might be setting an NBA record in terms of his 40 TS%.

Having said that, I kind of agree with Lip that we almost have no choice but to stick with him for now, but my version of that is down in the G-League. And may be, just may be he rediscovers his offense.

No doubt there are examples of successes and failures among young NBA players once given ample playing time. My point is that you don’t know until they get the playing time. Accordingly, you can’t draw anything close to reliable conclusions from the stats of a player who’s averaging only around 11 sporadic minutes per game. I don’t think it’s rare at all to see a 20 year old second year player with Rob’s offensive scoring stats playing such limited sporadic minutes. There happens to be a seasoned veteran named Tyus Jones who has offensive stats similar to Rob’s. The common denominator is that both Rob and Tyus are getting around 11 minutes per game.

Because stats provide little if any valuable insight into a player’s potential at those paltry levels of playing time, you have to evaluate the player based on what you see him do on the court. The only thing offensively that hasn’t looked good in Rob’s game is his shooting but he hasn’t taken enough shots or had the playing time to draw any definitive conclusions about his shooting, especially given how well he’s shot at every level before coming to the NBA. Meanwhile, his passing has looked very good. He’s also rebounding well and has improved in the turnover department. I just finished watching the second half of the Golden State game again. Rob’s play during that stretch is a good example, among others, of what he can do offensively. I remember Hayes coming out of college. I was high on him so I paid a lot of attention to him. He was very fast but didn’t have anything close to Rob’s skills - ball-handling, passing, change of direction, excellent off hand. Hayes was more like a smaller version of Terrance Shannon Jr. than a bigger version of Rob Dillingham.

Reed Sheppard is a better comparison. Reed’s stats last season were every bit as bad as Rob’s this season. Yet, Reed is having a terrific second season. The only difference between Reed this season and last is the fact that he’s now averaging over 25 minutes per game, rather than 10-12. And he didn’t gradually increase his minutes this season from 11 to 26 based on his play. He just got those minutes from the beginning, which has given him the opportunity to show what he can do - developing and improving along the way.

That leads me back to our area of agreement. Rob needs to play. TC gave up the little draft capital we had left to move up to get him. TC has a reputation for his acumen evaluating draft talent. Kentucky PGs have a history of succeeding in the NBA. We need a long-term answer at PG. All of that adds up to this — the onus is on this organization to develop Rob and find out what we have in him before making him a low-return throw-in as part of some bigger trade. I’d be fine with Rob getting the playing time he needs in the G-League, although if up to me I’d given him 20 minutes per game with the NBA Wolves. Bottom line is that this organization needs to get him on the court for significant consistent minutes - here or in Iowa - over an extended stretch for sake of his development and the organization’s ability to fully evaluate him.

[Lipoli390]

Sure. Young, promising players need playing time to get better.

But they have to do their part, too. Young players should show improvement from season to season early in their career. Jalen Johnson has done that. Every season. It's also not a sure thing that playing time = better player. I can share a few dozen examples if anybody wants them.

It's fair to say that a couple of the young* Wolves players have not improved, limited minutes or not.



* Shannon aint all that young anymore.

I’d say that Rob and Clark have both shown improvement. But Rob will need more than 11 sporadic minutes per game to give us anything close to a good sense of what he can become and he certainly needs more minutes to develop. Shannon’s the guy I’m worried about. He’s clearly regressed after looking really impressive late last season. I’m concerned about his lack of some key skills - using his off hand, changing speed and direction, ball-handling. Those are basic building blocks that defenders can exploit if they’re not there. And when you factor in his age and all the college experience he’s had, it certainly gives cause for concern. Nevertheless, I still see a lot to like in Shannon and would like to see him get more minutes.

I know it’s fashionable now to get down on or dismiss Rob but I actually think he’ll emerge as the best of our recent picks before their respective NBA careers are over. I actually think Shannon and Clark will be good but Rob will be better. He’s also by far the youngest and least experienced and he’s playing the toughest position. Hence the need for patience, especially with respect to Rob.

[Lipoli390]

Celtics were without Brown last night and still beat the Raptors. A couple of former Wolves were keys to the win. Josh Minott had 5 points and 4 rebounds in 17 minutes. He was a +10. Luka Garza had 12 points and 10 rebounds. He was a +22.

[Lipoli390]

The Pistons walloped the Hornets last night. LeMello Ball’s performance last night simply underscored why I have no interested in the Wolves trading for him. Here’s an interesting bit from that game. The only member of the Piston’s 14-man roster who didn’t get any playing time last night was Wendell Moore Jr. So much for TC’s draft acumen.

[Q-is-here]

Celtics were without Brown last night and still beat the Raptors. A couple of former Wolves were keys to the win. Josh Minott had 5 points and 4 rebounds in 17 minutes. He was a +10. Luka Garza had 12 points and 10 rebounds. He was a +22.

I used Killian Hayes as a counter to your player development philosophy. Sometimes giving a young player a lot of minutes leads to a lot of losses and they STILL don't develop. Finch is in no position to lose games, but is there something he can do that is in between his current method for giving minutes to young guys and handing them the keys to the franchise?

I present to you Josh Minott, whom you mention above. He's basically the 8th man for Boston averaging about 19MPG and the sample size is large enough now where he is unquestionably playing good basketball for the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference.

Josh spent three years here with tiny stints and minimal minutes. Should Finch not been so quick with the hook last season, his third year, after such a promising pre-season? Is he essentially making the same mistake with Shannon this year?

[BloopOracle]

[Stein] James Harden is becoming increasingly mentioned by rival executives as a potential trade piece ahead of the Feb. 5 deadline, with one veteran executive projecting him to hit the trade market this Winter.

[60WinTim]

[Stein] James Harden is becoming increasingly mentioned by rival executives as a potential trade piece ahead of the Feb. 5 deadline, with one veteran executive projecting him to hit the trade market this Winter.

I am completely out on Harden. I watched him help the Clippers beat a banged up Lakers last night. I don’t think he can ever shed his ISO game.

I’m also out on any trade that alters the starting lineup, and I think our backup PG depth is just fine.

[Coolbreeze44]

Whatever happened to the concept of earning your playing time? Finchy has been a proponent of that in the past, I hope he continues it, especially on a team with an open championship window.

[Lipoli390]

Celtics were without Brown last night and still beat the Raptors. A couple of former Wolves were keys to the win. Josh Minott had 5 points and 4 rebounds in 17 minutes. He was a +10. Luka Garza had 12 points and 10 rebounds. He was a +22.

I used Killian Hayes as a counter to your player development philosophy. Sometimes giving a young player a lot of minutes leads to a lot of losses and they STILL don't develop. Finch is in no position to lose games, but is there something he can do that is in between his current method for giving minutes to young guys and handing them the keys to the franchise?

I present to you Josh Minott, whom you mention above. He's basically the 8th man for Boston averaging about 19MPG and the sample size is large enough now where he is unquestionably playing good basketball for the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference.

Josh spent three years here with tiny stints and minimal minutes. Should Finch not been so quick with the hook last season, his third year, after such a promising pre-season? Is he essentially making the same mistake with Shannon this year?

I don’t think we’re far apart at all, Q. I think there is a middle ground between handing out big minutes unconditionally (the keys to the franchise as you say) and giving our recent picks more minutes than Finch has been willing to give them. It’s the bias that Tim referred to. I think Finch has an overly strong bias against playing inexperienced players. He gives them too little rope compared to the extensive rope he gives the vets. I’ve never thought Rob should be handed the starting PG role at 30 minutes per game. But I think he should be getting at least 15-20 minutes here or getting 35 minutes down in Iowa. Meanwhile, I think Finch needs to get Shannon into the rotation and let him play his way through mistakes and into the rhythm he had last season.