Should the Wolves fire Finch now or wait?

[Wolvesfan21]

It's five years later and I've coached high school women's basketball for 10+ years. When I watch this team I have no idea what Free Flo Offense is still.

I'm sorry its just a less extreme version of Rambis forcing the Triangle offense. You job as a coach is to adapt to your roster and can you honestly say that Finch has put this roster in best position to succeed.

At the end of the day I say he hasn't and that's why he needs to be fired.

I believe it's suppose to be take the shot, pass or dribble drive all within a half second. The players obviously don't listen to Finch because we get stuck with both Ant and Ju dribbling the air out of the ball way too much. Sure ISO game at times is fine, but we don't see nearly enough movement, passing and doing it of course quickly.

I think it's another reason why we're failing. The team won't even listen to Finch. It's sad though, because when they do it is usually pretty good. We've never got to see them play really close to their potential.

[Wolvesfan21]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

We have plenty of people blaming the players in every thread. I have repeatedly said Ant hasn't led the team by doing two things poorly, playing lackluster defense most of the time and not passing quick enough or well enough (dribbling the air out of the ball).

If Ant does those two things, plays quicker with better passing and ups his defensive intensity we are right there with OKC and SA.

But he doesn't do those things, which Finch has also repeatedly asked for. So what next? Just accept that trend or do something about it?

[thedoper]

Edwards inconsistency has been the criticism of almost every young star. It should be expected. Great coaching promotes consistency, that is why just about every star that became a superstar had a coaching change at a pivotal moment in their career. I believe Edwards would benefit from that now and needs it, just like Magic, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Curry, etc. all needed it. Edwards has reached his limit what he can gain from Finch. Finch is a fine coach who knows a lot about basketball. He has also lost this team and they have no clear direction on either end of the ball that I can see from regularly watching them.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

We have plenty of people blaming the players in every thread. I have repeatedly said Ant hasn't led the team by doing two things poorly, playing lackluster defense most of the time and not passing quick enough or well enough (dribbling the air out of the ball).

If Ant does those two things, plays quicker with better passing and ups his defensive intensity we are right there with OKC and SA.

But he doesn't do those things, which Finch has also repeatedly asked for. So what next? Just accept that trend or do something about it?

I thought I was pretty clear... in the NBA, it usually means it's time to find another coach. And hope the star player listens.

[AussieWolf3]

As others have said, no one is absolving the players of blame, but a coaching change is first off, the easiest to make.
I don't like that reason on its own

So additionally, in my view, and I apply this to most of life, when problems are recurring I look to overarching systems to see how they are effecting the individuals within them.

Players on the team consistently have issues with "effort" and following the game plan. All of these guys have experienced winning at a high level and are certainly aware that playing well earns them money, so I have a very very hard time believing that they don't care about winning or playing hard. So I'm inclined to believe there are underlying issues.

It's is virtually impossible for me to lay those issues solely at the feet of Finch, that would be silly and we all lack the information to make that determination. But if we take a step back from our fandom, I have to ask- maybe the game plan is difficult for these player to execute, or said another way it's not suited to their skills. If players feel this way or just aren't entirely sure of there role or question how it suits them, maybe that leads to what appears as a lack of effort.

I don't really know if that's what happening, but the fact that these are extant issues for going on multiple seasons, it's just very hard for me to believe that Finch can reach these guys and I don't see any reason to wait out the playoff outcomes

[kekgeek]

So I think Finch is going you get fired at the end of the year assuming not a big championship caliber push. Like Abe said (and I agree with) coaches get fired.

But firing Finch is just more than likely a bandaid on the problem. Finch is playing I think everyone would say top 9 players every night. The only player people would ask to play would be Beringer but with the history of Dilly, Garza, Minott, Nowell, Vando, Jmac, Moore, Beasley, Dlo. Nobody got better after they left Finch and got a significant role. Naw career was saved by Finch, Bones career probably saved by Finch, Beasley took 4 teams later to find it again after Finch. Miller is the only player that of showing a pulse away from Finch that didn’t play with the wolves. So it’s not like the Vikings where draft picks leave KOC and get better. Players are the same or worse away from Finch.

Also all of these firings lately. The toxic Malone fired and they have a worst record this year then last. Thibs fired and the Knicks are 1 game better, bud fired that lead to griffen that lead to rivers and they are one of the worst teams in the league.

Sure we all hope Finch is Mark Jackson and our next coach is Kerr. But who the eff knows they might win multiple championships with Jackson if not fired.

I would be so much more concerned about Finch coaching if players left Finch and got better, or the players were running the game plan and it was not working. Every time Finch got time in the playoffs he has “out coached” his opponents.

I blame the players so much more that they can’t self motivate themselves at all. Like come on they are the ones playing. Finch will get fired and I get that but it’s not just fixed the day he gets fired.

[rapsuperstar31]

Gotta see it through this season with this group... and then make the call.

Often, it looks like the Wolves are playing without a game plan. And then Finch gets ripped. And then the players say something along the lines of "it's on us for not following the game plan."

Rinse. Repeat.

Either way, it's a sign that Finch's time here may be coming to an end. If he can't get the Wolves to listen to him (despite claims that he holds them accountable)... it's a clear sign the players need a new coach.

But that comes with some drawbacks.

1) Firing Finch would be absolving immature players for being immature. They're the ones not implementing the game plan. They're the ones with inconsistent efforts. At the end of the day, no old guy who's expendable making $8M annually is convincing guys making 4x or 7x than him to play harder.

2) It's not just Finch. By most reports, the Wolves have a solid to good coaching tree. And NBA coaching staffs are so much more than just the head coach (if players are willing to follow game plans). BUT... Nori, Prigioni, Turner, et al can't get through to these players either (see #1), so I don't think any of them are surefire replacements for Finch. It would be more of the same. The problem is that some or even most of the talented assistants are also gone if the Wolves replace Finch with an outsider.

3) I've seen so many "Fire Finch!" declarations lately. Meh. At some point, I start dismissing those chants as rants from casuals. This is the NBA. It's on the players. There are smart guys on the sidelines all over the Association. If you notice, the best teams have superstars who care... who are accountable to themselves and their teammates.

SGA
Wemby
Tatum + Brown
Etc.

Can we say the same about Anthony Edwards at this point?

4) ALMOST every coach gets fired. Even the good ones. That's just the way pro sports, especially the NBA, run. Finch has had a good run and I wouldn't want to see the best coach in franchise history become the scapegoat, but that's where we are.

As long as Edwards is here, there's hope that the coach can inspire him transform into a top 5 player in the league. If it's not Finch... maybe someone else can.

Can we maybe not crown Wemby yet until we see it in the playoffs? Maybe he's one of the rare superstars that wins a championship before the 26-28 age range where most win their first. Until he does it, he still needs to win a playoff game, a series, multiple series. Ant continues to change and adapt his game based on the playoff results. He couldn't beat the Dallas bigs so he learned to shoot threes, he couldn't get off his threes against OKC's defense so he learned to shoot from the mid range. Wemby hasn't been to the playoffs yet, lets see what happens when he gets there and if he falls on face in his inexperience. Lets see how that failure evolves Wemby's game as he changes his game to improve in one area or the other. Right now Ant's focus has bee mostly on improving his shot making from all parts of the court, and he has worked on his dribbling as well (although he still dribbles it off of his foot too often) He also works on his playmaking lobs to Joan in the summer, which could be huge for future seasons in the Ant 2.0 timeline. Until I see it in the playoffs, Wemby isn't on any list yet.

I think we're discussing two different things. I'm not talking about proven success or even the playoffs.

I'm talking about the best players on good teams who put out consistent effort. The kind of "give a shit" effort (or attention to detail) that gets teammates to follow. Edwards is an amazing player. He does things we've never seen from a Timberwolves player before. He does things very few (if any) NBA players can match. I'm extremely happy to root for him on the Timberwolves player. I enjoy it immensely.

But his inconsistency (often, inconsistent effort) is well documented at this point. As the leader of the Wolves, it seems that some players have followed his lead, making the Wolves one of the most inconsistent teams in the League.

I guess what I meant to say was lets see what playoff failure does to Wemby's idea of the regular season. Ant has decided the path after losing to Dallas was that the regular season doesn't mean as much, and he can turn it on come the playoffs. I don't think that is true, but I also also don't think you need to kill yourself in the regular season to be a top 2 seed and find yourself injured and unable to win a title like Indiana ended up doing in the finals. I want to see what a playoff failure or two does to Wemby's mindset regarding consistent effort in the regular season. Does he realize that his body size is incredibly unique and something he needs to take easy during the regular season to make sure he has a long career.

[rapsuperstar31]

So I think Finch is going you get fired at the end of the year assuming not a big championship caliber push. Like Abe said (and I agree with) coaches get fired.

But firing Finch is just more than likely a bandaid on the problem. Finch is playing I think everyone would say top 9 players every night. The only player people would ask to play would be Beringer but with the history of Dilly, Garza, Minott, Nowell, Vando, Jmac, Moore, Beasley, Dlo. Nobody got better after they left Finch and got a significant role. Naw career was saved by Finch, Bones career probably saved by Finch, Beasley took 4 teams later to find it again after Finch. Miller is the only player that of showing a pulse away from Finch that didn’t play with the wolves. So it’s not like the Vikings where draft picks leave KOC and get better. Players are the same or worse away from Finch.

Also all of these firings lately. The toxic Malone fired and they have a worst record this year then last. Thibs fired and the Knicks are 1 game better, bud fired that lead to griffen that lead to rivers and they are one of the worst teams in the league.

Sure we all hope Finch is Mark Jackson and our next coach is Kerr. But who the eff knows they might win multiple championships with Jackson if not fired.

I would be so much more concerned about Finch coaching if players left Finch and got better, or the players were running the game plan and it was not working. Every time Finch got time in the playoffs he has “out coached” his opponents.

I blame the players so much more that they can’t self motivate themselves at all. Like come on they are the ones playing. Finch will get fired and I get that but it’s not just fixed the day he gets fired.

Finch is the 6th longest tenured coach in the league (somehow Billy Donovan still has a job longer) This is what happens in sports, coaches get fired, and I don't necessarily blame the coach or the players. We can't ask for more than a top 10 player in the league out of a 24 year old, we just can't. We are incredibly lucky to have one for just the 2nd time in franchise history.

Maybe we would have been better off never making the Rudy trade, we would be younger, still have assets, and maybe gotten to the 2nd round of the playoffs by now. We would be considered right on track, but we wouldn't have tasted the WCF yet. Losing the 7th pick the year after drafting Ant from the Dlo trade was a pretty big hit to team building. Wemby gets drafted and San Antonio gets the 3rd and 2nd picks the next two years to grab two more young stars. We don't even get a pick the year after we drafted Ant to get that last young piece to grow with him. Maybe that would have been more fair to not only Ant, Jaden, Naz, but also to Finch as he lets the team naturally grow. We'll never know that timeline, and in this timeline it's starting to look like the future of the franchise is without Finch. Now it's happened for every so called goat player, Lebron was still getting coaches fired a few years ago. Maybe it helps, brings in a fresh perspective, and the team can grow under a new scheme. Or maybe it's the last hurrah with Ant for a few more years, before he demands out to win his championships somewhere else where he can be that Ray Allen type star on a championship team.

[AussieWolf3]

To be honest, the coaching malpractice of pairing Rudy and Anderson together should be a firable offense. Finch has done that in every game Kyle's been available since he join the team and they have -33 net rating.

And to be honest I think that is emblematic of Finch's offense- consistently putting ill fitting pieces together and asking them to do things they're not best at.

Jaden McDaniels has been with Finch for 6 years and the guy still hasn't figured out how to get him consistently involved in the offense, and he really doesn't even care to.

I think that is outright stupid, the kid is an outright weapon waiting to be unleashed, and all Finch wants him to do is catch stray corner 3 opportunities and transition dunks. It's inexcusable at this point

[Q-is-here]

To be honest, the coaching malpractice of pairing Rudy and Anderson together should be a firable offense. Finch has done that in every game Kyle's been available since he join the team and they have -33 net rating.

And to be honest I think that is emblematic of Finch's offense- consistently putting ill fitting pieces together and asking them to do things they're not best at.

Jaden McDaniels has been with Finch for 6 years and the guy still hasn't figured out how to get him consistently involved in the offense, and he really doesn't even care to.

I think that is outright stupid, the kid is an outright weapon waiting to be unleashed, and all Finch wants him to do is catch stray corner 3 opportunities and transition dunks. It's inexcusable at this point

I think Finch plays Kyle and Rudy together because he knows Kyle will look to get Rudy involved in the offense. He is one of the few players both willing and able to throw Rudy a pass that he can convert. Not saying it's good offense on an overall basis since neither can shoot, but perhaps Finch sees it as a way to keep Rudy engaged in the offense which in turn translates to better defense.