Play me a tune Jazz @ Wolves GDT

[TheFuture]

Play making is the hardest thing to learn once you get to the NBA, you either have it or you don't. Ant takes 20.5 shots per game, I wouldn't consider that unreasonable. When Jordan was 24 he took 27.8 shots per game. Ant takes 20.5 shots on 35.5 minutes so .577 shots per minute, SGA shoots 19.7 shots in 33.5 minutes so .588 shots per minute. Luka takes 22.4 shots per game on 35.8 minutes per game so .626 shots per minute. I don't think Ant is selfish in shot attempts per game. When you remove someone that takes 20 shots per game, there is going to be more shots to go around. After taking 27.8 shots per game at 24, Jordan dropped his shots per game to get his teammates a bit more involved and dropped it down to 24.4 shots per game the next season. I trust Ant to keep learning from losses, and adapting his game as he goes. Hopefully this is a point emphasis this summer for him.

I edited just prior to you responding.

Ant is not Jordan. Jordan did hunt his own shots, but he brought it every night on both ends. Fuck Luka, he doesn't play any defense. I don't think he will ever win. Except he is in LA, so you never know what they will get gifted. SGA does shoot plenty, defends rather well, and he also playmakes, and that is why they won.

You are right with playmaking. You have it or you don't. It is obvious Ant does not have it, likely never will, and will remain a selfish teammate.

It's not selfish if you can't. Fine lets look at other players, Maxey 21.9 shots per game, Jaylen Brown 21.6 shots per game, Mitchell 20.3 shots per game, Brunson 20 shots per game, Leonard 19.5 shots per game. Ant isn't selfish, he shoots a pretty appropriate amount of shots.

Stats and analytics are fine and well. To a point. I don't get so consumed with them that I forget what I see. They aren't to be discounted, but I trust my eye test more.

You can go look up per game, or per 100 possession stats, but that doesn't account for the team that player is on and their overall team schemes.

Leonard has brought two teams to a title when he was healthy. Because he was very efficient on offense, and lights out defensively always.

Tatum plays a much different role. Boston has been built different. He also won.

Maxey hasn't won a thing, and will continue to be limited. Same for Brunson.

If this team wants to hit that level, then Ant needs to get to that next level. He cannot continue to hunt 40 all the time. He needs to realize his impact, and how that impact will make his team a ton better. I know he is very good, but a couple less shots a game, a bit more reliance on his team with right passes, and more focus on defense would make this team a ton better. They need confidence too right? You saw it in this game.

As for Naz. Minnesotans need to let go of this odd created superfandom of him and move on. I don't believe Naz will ever get any better at any other facets of his game outside of scoring. I would not like another KAT situation where the team is up to their throat in money owed. I would definitely prefer to sell him in the off-season, and work out deals with Ayo, Divo, Bones, and use whatever assets Naz brings to add current depth and potential prospects. You cannot be a big that cannot defend. My other choice would be to pay a limited big to be a 6-8th man 25mil a year? Hell no.

[TheFuture]

When Ant is on the floor our ball movement decreases. When Ant and Randle play together it's a slow symphony of plodding iso basketball. I have no idea why anyone would want to play at the same time as those 2. Truthfully, no one probably does. I wrote a post last week about the impact Ant has on winning basketball games. It's not that high, certainly not as high as most think.

Okay, this won't be popular. But we find ourself in the same position we were in with KAT when it became clear to me he wasn't going to lead us to a title. I campaigned to trade him 3-4 years before we finally did, losing a great deal of his trade value. Right now Ant could bring back a haul of historic proportions. But we will surely keep him and in 4 years we will have no championships and a diminished asset. I wish one team in Minnesota had a leader who could think outside the box and make a move like I'm suggesting.

I didn't read this post before I posted, but I have the same mindset. I know you've coached too. Their is a cohesion in a great team. Nobody puts their ego above the team, so nobody feels left out and doesn't give full effort. Nobody wants to say it, because Ant is extremely good. But he is selfish.

So was KAT. Most of us knew he wasn't the guy. At point, front offices around the league voted he was the player they would most want to build around. This team wandered in mediocrity, and dealt him after a huge contract and his low point. I am glad Julius, Divo, and Beringer are on the team.

I'm not saying Ant won't improve, but all the members here talk analytics. Well, you always sell high. The guy would bring whatever you asked for. And if people are honest; he is liable to leave. I hope he does dominate here, but I also hope TC has the foresight to not wait too long.

[Phenom]

I would start to entertain thoughts of selling high on a player of Ant's caliber when he stagnates. He has kept adding each year and now we are to the point where the scoring is amazing and he needs to start doing the other little things on a consistent level. At this point I won't put any skill past him. I'm still very excited to see his growth considering he hasn't hit the age where most stars lead their team to titles.

[AussieWolf3]

It would a phenomenally shitty thing to do this state and this fan base to sell the most exciting athlete in this town since who? probably KG
Selling a known ascending commodity for high end lottery tickets would be foolish. Team building, financially, and company goodwill from all stand points it would be foolish.
Ant probably never wins a championship in Minnesota, that's just the statistical likelihood, however the likelihood of that happening at all is still higher now than it has been for a long long time.

It's just so galaxy brained shit to think trading Ant is the most prudent thing to do, even if the future bears out in your favor it would be by sheer luck

[Coolbreeze44]

It would a phenomenally shitty thing to do this state and this fan base to sell the most exciting athlete in this town since who? probably KG
Selling a known ascending commodity for high end lottery tickets would be foolish. Team building, financially, and company goodwill from all stand points it would be foolish.
Ant probably never wins a championship in Minnesota, that's just the statistical likelihood, however the likelihood of that happening at all is still higher now than it has been for a long long time.

It's just so galaxy brained shit to think trading Ant is the most prudent thing to do, even if the future bears out in your favor it would be by sheer luck

Let me throw out a hypothetical to you. What if we could land Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, and a couple #1 picks from Houston for Ant? Would that interest you at all? Do you think Ant could bring that kind of return? If you don't, then you think less of Ant than I do.

[AussieWolf3]

It would a phenomenally shitty thing to do this state and this fan base to sell the most exciting athlete in this town since who? probably KG
Selling a known ascending commodity for high end lottery tickets would be foolish. Team building, financially, and company goodwill from all stand points it would be foolish.
Ant probably never wins a championship in Minnesota, that's just the statistical likelihood, however the likelihood of that happening at all is still higher now than it has been for a long long time.

It's just so galaxy brained shit to think trading Ant is the most prudent thing to do, even if the future bears out in your favor it would be by sheer luck

Let me throw out a hypothetical to you. What if we could land Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, and a couple #1 picks from Houston for Ant? Would that interest you at all? Do you think Ant could bring that kind of return? If you don't, then you think less of Ant than I do.

If think so highly of him, why do you want to trade him!?

Here's what I'm saying, is that even if from a basketball perspective that were to make sense- and it might - it would be a disservice to fans and probably a bad business decision anyway to trade such a highly marketable player.

And to be honest, as a talent accumulation/team building strategy it might be pretty shrewd to build up player's trade profiles and trade them for parts. Maybe there is an argument for doing that continuously, and stockpiling fungible assets (I hate cooperate speak, yet here I am). I could honestly see that as a shrewd way to build a team and I would probably have no interest in that team, none.

Getting to watch players grow and develop and be a part of their story, and hopefully watching exciting games along the way is why I like sports. I don't hinge everything on championships, even tho it would be great to cheer for a team that wins one. Which I haven't been able to do.

I also think it's just way too speculative up think that Ant won't win a championship, and I also think it's incorrect to say he doesn't contribute to winning. He doesn't contribute as much as his talent and stats say he should, which concerns me, but many players have had to stumble through what works and what doesn't before winning a championship.

I personally believe that Ant cares a lot about winning, but is still occasionally misguided and immature about what he needs to do to really make that happen at a high level. I hope he figures it out, but even if he doesn't I'll have been happy to be a fan of the team he plays on

[Coolbreeze44]

It would a phenomenally shitty thing to do this state and this fan base to sell the most exciting athlete in this town since who? probably KG
Selling a known ascending commodity for high end lottery tickets would be foolish. Team building, financially, and company goodwill from all stand points it would be foolish.
Ant probably never wins a championship in Minnesota, that's just the statistical likelihood, however the likelihood of that happening at all is still higher now than it has been for a long long time.

It's just so galaxy brained shit to think trading Ant is the most prudent thing to do, even if the future bears out in your favor it would be by sheer luck

Let me throw out a hypothetical to you. What if we could land Amen Thompson, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, and a couple #1 picks from Houston for Ant? Would that interest you at all? Do you think Ant could bring that kind of return? If you don't, then you think less of Ant than I do.

If think so highly of him, why do you want to trade him!?

Here's what I'm saying, is that even if from a basketball perspective that were to make sense- and it might - it would be a disservice to fans and probably a bad business decision anyway to trade such a highly marketable player.

And to be honest, as a talent accumulation/team building strategy it might be pretty shrewd to build up player's trade profiles and trade them for parts. Maybe there is an argument for doing that continuously, and stockpiling fungible assets (I hate cooperate speak, yet here I am). I could honestly see that as a shrewd way to build a team and I would probably have no interest in that team, none.

Getting to watch players grow and develop and be a part of their story, and hopefully watching exciting games along the way is why I like sports. I don't hinge everything on championships, even tho it would be great to cheer for a team that wins one. Which I haven't been able to do.

I also think it's just way too speculative up think that Ant won't win a championship, and I also think it's incorrect to say he doesn't contribute to winning. He doesn't contribute as much as his talent and stats say he should, which concerns me, but many players have had to stumble through what works and what doesn't before winning a championship.

I personally believe that Ant cares a lot about winning, but is still occasionally misguided and immature about what he needs to do to really make that happen at a high level. I hope he figures it out, but even if he doesn't I'll have been happy to be a fan of the team he plays on

Our feelings on this are not that far off each other. The biggest difference is that all I care about is winning championships, the journey is going to be fun no matter what. And secondly, I care a hell of a lot more about the name on the front of the jersey than the one on the back.

[rapsuperstar31]

I edited just prior to you responding.

Ant is not Jordan. Jordan did hunt his own shots, but he brought it every night on both ends. Fuck Luka, he doesn't play any defense. I don't think he will ever win. Except he is in LA, so you never know what they will get gifted. SGA does shoot plenty, defends rather well, and he also playmakes, and that is why they won.

You are right with playmaking. You have it or you don't. It is obvious Ant does not have it, likely never will, and will remain a selfish teammate.

It's not selfish if you can't. Fine lets look at other players, Maxey 21.9 shots per game, Jaylen Brown 21.6 shots per game, Mitchell 20.3 shots per game, Brunson 20 shots per game, Leonard 19.5 shots per game. Ant isn't selfish, he shoots a pretty appropriate amount of shots.

Stats and analytics are fine and well. To a point. I don't get so consumed with them that I forget what I see. They aren't to be discounted, but I trust my eye test more.

You can go look up per game, or per 100 possession stats, but that doesn't account for the team that player is on and their overall team schemes.

Leonard has brought two teams to a title when he was healthy. Because he was very efficient on offense, and lights out defensively always.

Tatum plays a much different role. Boston has been built different. He also won.

Maxey hasn't won a thing, and will continue to be limited. Same for Brunson.

If this team wants to hit that level, then Ant needs to get to that next level. He cannot continue to hunt 40 all the time. He needs to realize his impact, and how that impact will make his team a ton better. I know he is very good, but a couple less shots a game, a bit more reliance on his team with right passes, and more focus on defense would make this team a ton better. They need confidence too right? You saw it in this game.

As for Naz. Minnesotans need to let go of this odd created superfandom of him and move on. I don't believe Naz will ever get any better at any other facets of his game outside of scoring. I would not like another KAT situation where the team is up to their throat in money owed. I would definitely prefer to sell him in the off-season, and work out deals with Ayo, Divo, Bones, and use whatever assets Naz brings to add current depth and potential prospects. You cannot be a big that cannot defend. My other choice would be to pay a limited big to be a 6-8th man 25mil a year? Hell no.

Lets look at it this way, lets look at the players that take the shots per game on different teams and see how many shot attempts they get per game. We will look at the 2nd most to the 6th most shot attempts on a team and take out the number one players shots. Wolves 2-6 shoots 56.6 shots per game. For OKC it's 61.7 so they get up 5.1 shots per game. Spurs 56.9 shots per game. Detroit 46.2 shots for their 2-6 highest shooters. Knicks 57.7 shots per game. Denver 58.5 shots per game, and that includes Joker taking 17.5 of them since Murray is number one at 18.1 shots per game. So maybe the Wolves can get an extra shot or two spread around, but it's pretty consistent across the leagues at least top teams.

[TheFuture]

It's not selfish if you can't. Fine lets look at other players, Maxey 21.9 shots per game, Jaylen Brown 21.6 shots per game, Mitchell 20.3 shots per game, Brunson 20 shots per game, Leonard 19.5 shots per game. Ant isn't selfish, he shoots a pretty appropriate amount of shots.

Stats and analytics are fine and well. To a point. I don't get so consumed with them that I forget what I see. They aren't to be discounted, but I trust my eye test more.

You can go look up per game, or per 100 possession stats, but that doesn't account for the team that player is on and their overall team schemes.

Leonard has brought two teams to a title when he was healthy. Because he was very efficient on offense, and lights out defensively always.

Tatum plays a much different role. Boston has been built different. He also won.

Maxey hasn't won a thing, and will continue to be limited. Same for Brunson.

If this team wants to hit that level, then Ant needs to get to that next level. He cannot continue to hunt 40 all the time. He needs to realize his impact, and how that impact will make his team a ton better. I know he is very good, but a couple less shots a game, a bit more reliance on his team with right passes, and more focus on defense would make this team a ton better. They need confidence too right? You saw it in this game.

As for Naz. Minnesotans need to let go of this odd created superfandom of him and move on. I don't believe Naz will ever get any better at any other facets of his game outside of scoring. I would not like another KAT situation where the team is up to their throat in money owed. I would definitely prefer to sell him in the off-season, and work out deals with Ayo, Divo, Bones, and use whatever assets Naz brings to add current depth and potential prospects. You cannot be a big that cannot defend. My other choice would be to pay a limited big to be a 6-8th man 25mil a year? Hell no.

Lets look at it this way, lets look at the players that take the shots per game on different teams and see how many shot attempts they get per game. We will look at the 2nd most to the 6th most shot attempts on a team and take out the number one players shots. Wolves 2-6 shoots 56.6 shots per game. For OKC it's 61.7 so they get up 5.1 shots per game. Spurs 56.9 shots per game. Detroit 46.2 shots for their 2-6 highest shooters. Knicks 57.7 shots per game. Denver 58.5 shots per game, and that includes Joker taking 17.5 of them since Murray is number one at 18.1 shots per game. So maybe the Wolves can get an extra shot or two spread around, but it's pretty consistent across the leagues at least top teams.

I do not care about you looking up stats and trying to persuade me into your view. You are so caught up with Ant compared to other premier players, that you are disregarding everything else. I said what I have said; you have your view and I have mine. I stand by mine. You make no points about anything else I have said.

You can not have so many players hunting their own shots and taking the day off on defense.

Do I know Ant is exceptional, yes. Can he/will he grow? Yes. Would it be shortsighted to trade him right now? Yes. Does it have to be a thought? Potential. Just cannot be too late. Again. Hell, KG tried his hardest and was traded for scraps. KAT the same. Love the same.

Naz needs to be moved for sure in my opinion. You aren't getting a talent back like Randle for Randle. You may get a team to still buy into the idea of Naz though. I would immediately capitalize on that for sure and move off his salary to keep current depth, and add to it. Can he shoot his ass off at times. Yes. Does he dissappear plenty. Yes. He is a far better player than Shabazz, but he carries the same tendency to always look for his. He is too slow-footed on defense and does not rebound. Big issue as a big when the team is not going to move off of Gobert, Randle, or Beringer. He does not fit next to any of them. Never will. Period.

[Coolbreeze44]

Just to clarify regarding potentially trading Ant. I would consider it solely because his perceived value around the league is higher than his actual value to the Wolves. To me it's a matter of Math, A (the best you can get for him) - B (Ant's value) = C, where "C" is a positive number.