Teams that won a title without Top 5 Player

[Coolbreeze44]

You mentioned shooting percentage + playoffs + consistency.

So I think that stat was relevant. After all, any playoff statistic could be waved off as "small sample size" if we want.

That is a solid number of shots too, it's not like 1 game or even 3. Obviously he was just in a bit of a funk, as his regular season numbers were nice. To be a top dog team though, we are going to probably need more Pippen then McCants.

I'm fairly confident that you could find 42 shot samples in just about any elite shooter's season where they have that low of a percentage, it's just not that many shots in the grand scheme of it all.

And y'all acting like he had some kind of awful drop off in the PS. He didn't, 17.6 ppg: 48% on midrange and 67% at the rim all while playing great defense - at time game breaking defense.

The Spurs series was disappointing for sure, but the whole team was kinda dysfunctional in hindsight.

Give him so real usage and run sets with him running PnR, give him a chance at volume scoring and I'm absolutely certain he wont disappoint. Can he rise to all star or better levels, and be legit number 2? I don't know but it's not outside the realm of possibility, not by a long shot

Yessir

[Wolvesfan21]

You mentioned shooting percentage + playoffs + consistency.

So I think that stat was relevant. After all, any playoff statistic could be waved off as "small sample size" if we want.

That is a solid number of shots too, it's not like 1 game or even 3. Obviously he was just in a bit of a funk, as his regular season numbers were nice. To be a top dog team though, we are going to probably need more Pippen then McCants.

I'm fairly confident that you could find 42 shot samples in just about any elite shooter's season where they have that low of a percentage, it's just not that many shots in the grand scheme of it all.

And y'all acting like he had some kind of awful drop off in the PS. He didn't, 17.6 ppg: 48% on midrange and 67% at the rim all while playing great defense - at time game breaking defense.

The Spurs series was disappointing for sure, but the whole team was kinda dysfunctional in hindsight.

Give him so real usage and run sets with him running PnR, give him a chance at volume scoring and I'm absolutely certain he wont disappoint. Can he rise to all star or better levels, and be legit number 2? I don't know but it's not outside the realm of possibility, not by a long shot

Nope, you cut his role back more just like the Knicks did with KAT. He's not asked to do too much and is succeeding. Let's not ask Jaden or any of our players to do too much.

[Wolvesfan21]

You mentioned shooting percentage + playoffs + consistency.

So I think that stat was relevant. After all, any playoff statistic could be waved off as "small sample size" if we want.

That is a solid number of shots too, it's not like 1 game or even 3. Obviously he was just in a bit of a funk, as his regular season numbers were nice. To be a top dog team though, we are going to probably need more Pippen then McCants.

I'm fairly confident that you could find 42 shot samples in just about any elite shooter's season where they have that low of a percentage, it's just not that many shots in the grand scheme of it all.

And y'all acting like he had some kind of awful drop off in the PS. He didn't, 17.6 ppg: 48% on midrange and 67% at the rim all while playing great defense - at time game breaking defense.

The Spurs series was disappointing for sure, but the whole team was kinda dysfunctional in hindsight.

Give him so real usage and run sets with him running PnR, give him a chance at volume scoring and I'm absolutely certain he wont disappoint. Can he rise to all star or better levels, and be legit number 2? I don't know but it's not outside the realm of possibility, not by a long shot

Nope, you cut his role back more just like the Knicks did with KAT. He's not asked to do too much and is succeeding. Let's not ask Jaden or any of our players to do too much.

[AussieWolf3]

That is a solid number of shots too, it's not like 1 game or even 3. Obviously he was just in a bit of a funk, as his regular season numbers were nice. To be a top dog team though, we are going to probably need more Pippen then McCants.

I'm fairly confident that you could find 42 shot samples in just about any elite shooter's season where they have that low of a percentage, it's just not that many shots in the grand scheme of it all.

And y'all acting like he had some kind of awful drop off in the PS. He didn't, 17.6 ppg: 48% on midrange and 67% at the rim all while playing great defense - at time game breaking defense.

The Spurs series was disappointing for sure, but the whole team was kinda dysfunctional in hindsight.

Give him so real usage and run sets with him running PnR, give him a chance at volume scoring and I'm absolutely certain he wont disappoint. Can he rise to all star or better levels, and be legit number 2? I don't know but it's not outside the realm of possibility, not by a long shot

Nope, you cut his role back more just like the Knicks did with KAT. He's not asked to do too much and is succeeding. Let's not ask Jaden or any of our players to do too much.

Cut his role back? To what, the bench?
He already has such a reduced offensive role as it is which is why he's so "inconsistent"

Over the last two years when playing with Ant or Julius out of the lineup, Jaden averaged 19.8 ppg. He's never had any problems scaling his game up when needed, so why not scale up his role?
It's just wild to watch this guy for 6 years and not be convinced that there is more there

[TheGrey08]

Cut his role back? To what, the bench?
He already has such a reduced offensive role as it is which is why he's so "inconsistent"

Over the last two years when playing with Ant or Julius out of the lineup, Jaden averaged 19.8 ppg. He's never had any problems scaling his game up when needed, so why not scale up his role?
It's just wild to watch this guy for 6 years and not be convinced that there is more there

Yep. It's another reason a lot of us want Randle gone. He's kinda blocking Jaden offensively. When Randle was out, Jaden hit another gear. Question is, how often would he do that if say Naz was next to him instead of Randle. I'm ready to find out.

[Lipoli390]

Cut his role back? To what, the bench?
He already has such a reduced offensive role as it is which is why he's so "inconsistent"

Over the last two years when playing with Ant or Julius out of the lineup, Jaden averaged 19.8 ppg. He's never had any problems scaling his game up when needed, so why not scale up his role?
It's just wild to watch this guy for 6 years and not be convinced that there is more there

Yep. It's another reason a lot of us want Randle gone. He's kinda blocking Jaden offensively. When Randle was out, Jaden hit another gear. Question is, how often would he do that if say Naz was next to him instead of Randle. I'm ready to find out.

That is certainly an important question that, like you, I’m ready to see answered on the court. Naz is the antithesis of Randle when it comes to movement. He doesn’t hold the ball and me moves a lot without the ball. He’s a much better fit than Randle with both Ant and Jaden in my view.

[Q-is-here]

'25-26 Knicks: Jalen Brunson (Player Efficiency Rating = 20.1, no MVP votes). So a short-ish guard that takes a lot of tough shots, dribbles all over the place, and gets targeted defensively just led his team to a title? Yes indeed.

'23-24 Celtics: Jayson Tatum (Player Efficiency Rating = 22.3, 6th in MVP votes). And it was Jaylen Brown that won the Finals MVP that year! It was just a really well-constructed team without any holes in it.

'21-22 Warriors: Stephen Curry (PER = 21.4, 8th in MVP). This was Golden State's last title run and Curry, while still really good (and still is!), was past his peak. Perennial underachiever Andrew Wiggins of all people was key in them winning it all that year!

'18-19 Raptors: Kawhi Leonard (PER = 25.8, 9th in MVP). The Raptors had a really good team before the fleeting acquisition of Kawhi. He took them over the top. You could argue that being voted 9th in MVP that year was undervaluing his impact, but he certainly didn't put up Jokic, Giannis, or SGA-type numbers that season.

'13-14 Spurs: Tim Duncan (PER = 21.3, 12th in MVP). Duncan was pretty old at this point and well past his prime, but he was the best player on the team that had multiple great players, but none were clear MVP-caliber players at this point in time. Tony Parker led the team in scoring that season. He averaged 16.7 points per game!

'10-11 Mavs: Dirk Nowitzski (PER = 23.4, 6th in MVP). Dallas took down the super-friends team of LeBron, Wade, and Bosh that clearly had the most talent in the NBA at the peak of their collective powers. It can be done!

'05-06 Heat: Dwayne Wade (PER = 27.6, 6th in MVP). Based on Wade's PER, he exhibited MVP-caliber production, but only came in 6th the season he won a title pre-LeBron/super friends.

'03-04 Pistons: Not Applicable. Not a single player on this team had a PER of 20 or higher or received MVP votes. Richard Hamilton was their leading scorer at 17.6 PPG. Ben Wallace was the closest they had to an MVP. This is the guy that averaged 9 points, shot 42% from the field and 49% on free throws.

[Mnwild1128]

Add Hali for last season. If he did not get hurt, they win game 7.

[WildWolf2813]

Cut his role back? To what, the bench?
He already has such a reduced offensive role as it is which is why he's so "inconsistent"

Over the last two years when playing with Ant or Julius out of the lineup, Jaden averaged 19.8 ppg. He's never had any problems scaling his game up when needed, so why not scale up his role?
It's just wild to watch this guy for 6 years and not be convinced that there is more there

Yep. It's another reason a lot of us want Randle gone. He's kinda blocking Jaden offensively. When Randle was out, Jaden hit another gear. Question is, how often would he do that if say Naz was next to him instead of Randle. I'm ready to find out.

Jaden has been here 6 years. Naz has been here 7.

If there was more there and coaching got in the way, Finch should be out of a job.

If there was more there and the front office got in the way, Connelly should be out of a job.

but while the first two may be true, it may just be that Jaden isn't good enough to be that second fiddle because even those type of players don't have to wait for someone else to leave to make a way. You take that spot and make those decisions for the coach and front office.

Jalen Brunson was signed initially to complement Randle. He overtook Randle to the point where nobody could ignore it and it took Brunson physically breaking down to not have gotten to the finals sooner, without Randle. Brunson didn't wait for clearance. Jaden shouldn't have either.

[Wolvesfan21]

Cut his role back? To what, the bench?
He already has such a reduced offensive role as it is which is why he's so "inconsistent"

Over the last two years when playing with Ant or Julius out of the lineup, Jaden averaged 19.8 ppg. He's never had any problems scaling his game up when needed, so why not scale up his role?
It's just wild to watch this guy for 6 years and not be convinced that there is more there

Yep. It's another reason a lot of us want Randle gone. He's kinda blocking Jaden offensively. When Randle was out, Jaden hit another gear. Question is, how often would he do that if say Naz was next to him instead of Randle. I'm ready to find out.

Jaden has been here 6 years. Naz has been here 7.

If there was more there and coaching got in the way, Finch should be out of a job.

If there was more there and the front office got in the way, Connelly should be out of a job.

but while the first two may be true, it may just be that Jaden isn't good enough to be that second fiddle because even those type of players don't have to wait for someone else to leave to make a way. You take that spot and make those decisions for the coach and front office.

Jalen Brunson was signed initially to complement Randle. He overtook Randle to the point where nobody could ignore it and it took Brunson physically breaking down to not have gotten to the finals sooner, without Randle. Brunson didn't wait for clearance. Jaden shouldn't have either.

Of course, and it's not like Julius was so good that Jaden stepping up and taking it wasn't possible. It's just complete nonsense to say, oh get rid of Ju so Jaden can step up as a top 2 scorer.

Jaden is doing great in his role. Trying to make him into to someone in a different role is foolish. He's great as a elite defensive wing who can also score a bit, he's already successful!!! Don't try and change him into a more of scorer who then is probably more tired and can't defend at the same level. Makes no sense. Keep the main thing the main thing.

I'm not saying he shouldn't try and expand his game at all. He for sure can improve on passing, handling and overall offense. But it's not what he's great at so I wouldn't risk taking away from his primary role to hope he becomes a player with too much on his plate. Asking him to be the number 2 scorer and number 1 or 2 defender just seems unrealistic. How many guys can carry that load in the NBA? That list is super short, even in the history of the NBA. Think about it. Guys have to play their roles and play to their strengths. Its a team game.