Teams that won a title without Top 5 Player

[rapsuperstar31]

Can't have a Sabonis/Naz frontcourt duo and expect to stop many teams, even if the perimeter defense is solid. That's just too much weakness at the rim to overcome. Fun team offensively though.

Completely agree! I want to dream that Jaden can be a full time PF, but idk how that works with Naz and apparently Jaden doesn't want to do that anyway.

I would flip Naz for a defensive PF if that were possible. Not sure who tho.

I go back and forth on Sabonis with this team. After watching Kat it's like, ok, a flawed and overpaid center can win the damn thing so maybe this works. Sabonis isn't as good as Kat, but isn't as highly paid either, the tough part with him is that, unlike Kat he doesn't have the length to bother people as a defender like Kat.

I also think he's a perfect match on offense

Yeah, if we had Sabonis, you would do something similar to the Knicks and basically bookend him with two big wings that can defend, one of which could be Jaden. I don't think the other player would have to be a "pure" PF, but more like another rangy wing like Derrick Jones Jr. Now Sabonnis would have a lot of perimeter help and Jaden can still offer some weakside rim protection to boot.

Guard - Ayo
Guard - Ant
Forward - Jaden
Forward - Derrick Jones Jr.
Center - Sabonis

And Voila! No need for a pure PG with Sabonis in the mix, which is probably what you were getting at with wanting him.

Charlotte was checking in on Sabonis, The Kings want a first round pick, and Charlotte said no. I don't think it would cost too much to get him other than matching salary. You never know on that change of scenery for a guy. I do think he struggled in his playoffs and in the playin, but so did KAT for years.

[Q-is-here]

Completely agree! I want to dream that Jaden can be a full time PF, but idk how that works with Naz and apparently Jaden doesn't want to do that anyway.

I would flip Naz for a defensive PF if that were possible. Not sure who tho.

I go back and forth on Sabonis with this team. After watching Kat it's like, ok, a flawed and overpaid center can win the damn thing so maybe this works. Sabonis isn't as good as Kat, but isn't as highly paid either, the tough part with him is that, unlike Kat he doesn't have the length to bother people as a defender like Kat.

I also think he's a perfect match on offense

Yeah, if we had Sabonis, you would do something similar to the Knicks and basically bookend him with two big wings that can defend, one of which could be Jaden. I don't think the other player would have to be a "pure" PF, but more like another rangy wing like Derrick Jones Jr. Now Sabonnis would have a lot of perimeter help and Jaden can still offer some weakside rim protection to boot.

Guard - Ayo
Guard - Ant
Forward - Jaden
Forward - Derrick Jones Jr.
Center - Sabonis

And Voila! No need for a pure PG with Sabonis in the mix, which is probably what you were getting at with wanting him.

Charlotte was checking in on Sabonis, The Kings want a first round pick, and Charlotte said no. I don't think it would cost too much to get him other than matching salary. You never know on that change of scenery for a guy. I do think he struggled in his playoffs and in the playin, but so did KAT for years.

He's not really a guy I've thought about much except for Aussie and others bringing his name up. Offensively he would be a 180-degree change from Rudy, LOL. He is an elite rebounder and passer for his position; can hit a 15-footer; makes his free throws at a 70%+ clip; and will throw his body around. But yeah, I'd be worried our defense would crater, as Jaden can only do so much!

[AussieWolf3]

Yeah, if we had Sabonis, you would do something similar to the Knicks and basically bookend him with two big wings that can defend, one of which could be Jaden. I don't think the other player would have to be a "pure" PF, but more like another rangy wing like Derrick Jones Jr. Now Sabonnis would have a lot of perimeter help and Jaden can still offer some weakside rim protection to boot.

Guard - Ayo
Guard - Ant
Forward - Jaden
Forward - Derrick Jones Jr.
Center - Sabonis

And Voila! No need for a pure PG with Sabonis in the mix, which is probably what you were getting at with wanting him.

Charlotte was checking in on Sabonis, The Kings want a first round pick, and Charlotte said no. I don't think it would cost too much to get him other than matching salary. You never know on that change of scenery for a guy. I do think he struggled in his playoffs and in the playin, but so did KAT for years.

He's not really a guy I've thought about much except for Aussie and others bringing his name up. Offensively he would be a 180-degree change from Rudy, LOL. He is an elite rebounder and passer for his position; can hit a 15-footer; makes his free throws at a 70%+ clip; and will throw his body around. But yeah, I'd be worried our defense would crater, as Jaden can only do so much!

To be clear, I'm not sure I would want Sabonis or not, but I can see the logic. You gotta figure out the defense tho, and idk.

would you have to salary match? I seriously don't understand this shit. I think I would only be interested if you can clear Rudy and Randle from the books for Sabonis, basically netting 20M.

If Jaden can actually continue to be a legit 3 point shooter than it's really a perfect match, but you have to upgrade defensively from Naz. Does that that mean you move him?

Honestly I just want a guy who is for real on the short roll. We know Ant can and will make that pass, and it works well as a counter punch anyway

[Q-is-here]

Charlotte was checking in on Sabonis, The Kings want a first round pick, and Charlotte said no. I don't think it would cost too much to get him other than matching salary. You never know on that change of scenery for a guy. I do think he struggled in his playoffs and in the playin, but so did KAT for years.

He's not really a guy I've thought about much except for Aussie and others bringing his name up. Offensively he would be a 180-degree change from Rudy, LOL. He is an elite rebounder and passer for his position; can hit a 15-footer; makes his free throws at a 70%+ clip; and will throw his body around. But yeah, I'd be worried our defense would crater, as Jaden can only do so much!

To be clear, I'm not sure I would want Sabonis or not, but I can see the logic. You gotta figure out the defense tho, and idk.

would you have to salary match? I seriously don't understand this shit. I think I would only be interested if you can clear Rudy and Randle from the books for Sabonis, basically netting 20M.

If Jaden can actually continue to be a legit 3 point shooter than it's really a perfect match, but you have to upgrade defensively from Naz. Does that that mean you move him?

Honestly I just want a guy who is for real on the short roll. We know Ant can and will make that pass, and it works well as a counter punch anyway

Yes, we would have to match $42M in salary, so Randle + DDV + TSJ or Rudy + DDV would get it done.

A Sabonis, Naz (if not traded), Jaden, Ant, Ayo starting 5 could be really fun offensively and give Finch a TON of different actions that they could run. You'd need the other four guys to step up defensively and you would absolutely need some defense coming off the bench. IDK....could be fun.

[Monster]

Unlikely. NY gave up Barret, Quickly and a 2nd round pick for OG. In the hypothetical above, you still have all of those players and draft picks pre Rudy trade- plenty there to add someone who was clearly not of the same caliber as Rudy at that time without giving up someone like Jaden.

Probably could have done a similar collection of players as were given up for Rudy and less draft picks

What are you trading to get Nembhard?

Haha in this alternative universe Tim was wise wand we drafted him at 26 instead of Wendell Moore.

Ok well drafting him there doesn't really have an effect on the Gobert or Towns trade. The Wolves could have simply picked him and there were posters or at least one was pounding the table for him... Meanwhile my guy was Moore...(Hangs head in great shame)

It's tough how Connelly came out of that draft with almost nothing. Jaylen Clark is the best player the Wolves added with the draft picks we had available. He was picked with a pick they got for trading down and selecting Josh Minott in 2022. There were some worthwhile players taken after Moore (or the pick we could have used in the 2nd round) it's a shame we didn't get one. People were wanting other guys bad like Chandler and Washington and Cam was really in on Gabriele Procida which was a bit of a surprise because he wasn't always a fan of international players. Connelly does need to have some draft picks come through and help this roster. I feel optimistic about the guys he got last year and TSJ. I actually hope we can keep Clark on a cheap deal.

[Monster]

He's not really a guy I've thought about much except for Aussie and others bringing his name up. Offensively he would be a 180-degree change from Rudy, LOL. He is an elite rebounder and passer for his position; can hit a 15-footer; makes his free throws at a 70%+ clip; and will throw his body around. But yeah, I'd be worried our defense would crater, as Jaden can only do so much!

To be clear, I'm not sure I would want Sabonis or not, but I can see the logic. You gotta figure out the defense tho, and idk.

would you have to salary match? I seriously don't understand this shit. I think I would only be interested if you can clear Rudy and Randle from the books for Sabonis, basically netting 20M.

If Jaden can actually continue to be a legit 3 point shooter than it's really a perfect match, but you have to upgrade defensively from Naz. Does that that mean you move him?

Honestly I just want a guy who is for real on the short roll. We know Ant can and will make that pass, and it works well as a counter punch anyway

Yes, we would have to match $42M in salary, so Randle + DDV + TSJ or Rudy + DDV would get it done.

A Sabonis, Naz (if not traded), Jaden, Ant, Ayo starting 5 could be really fun offensively and give Finch a TON of different actions that they could run. You'd need the other four guys to step up defensively and you would absolutely need some defense coming off the bench. IDK....could be fun.

In my mind going from Randle to Sabonis would be fun. What's the difference in defense especially considering the rebounding Sabonis would give you? Yeah I'm not sure it would work either and the Wolves first this year is quite a bit worse than Charlotte but if his price is that low...man it's tempting but I always been a Sabonis fan even if obviously he has his flaws too.

[AussieWolf3]

To be clear, I'm not sure I would want Sabonis or not, but I can see the logic. You gotta figure out the defense tho, and idk.

would you have to salary match? I seriously don't understand this shit. I think I would only be interested if you can clear Rudy and Randle from the books for Sabonis, basically netting 20M.

If Jaden can actually continue to be a legit 3 point shooter than it's really a perfect match, but you have to upgrade defensively from Naz. Does that that mean you move him?

Honestly I just want a guy who is for real on the short roll. We know Ant can and will make that pass, and it works well as a counter punch anyway

Yes, we would have to match $42M in salary, so Randle + DDV + TSJ or Rudy + DDV would get it done.

A Sabonis, Naz (if not traded), Jaden, Ant, Ayo starting 5 could be really fun offensively and give Finch a TON of different actions that they could run. You'd need the other four guys to step up defensively and you would absolutely need some defense coming off the bench. IDK....could be fun.

In my mind going from Randle to Sabonis would be fun. What's the difference in defense especially considering the rebounding Sabonis would give you? Yeah I'm not sure it would work either and the Wolves first this year is quite a bit worse than Charlotte but if his price is that low...man it's tempting but I always been a Sabonis fan even if obviously he has his flaws too.

Are you thinking that you'd run Sabonis and Gobert? If you can convince him to shoot more that could work but I'm kinda over running these type of wonky lineups.

Ant
Jaden
Naz
Sabonis
Rudy

Would be hilarious tho

[Monster]

Yes, we would have to match $42M in salary, so Randle + DDV + TSJ or Rudy + DDV would get it done.

A Sabonis, Naz (if not traded), Jaden, Ant, Ayo starting 5 could be really fun offensively and give Finch a TON of different actions that they could run. You'd need the other four guys to step up defensively and you would absolutely need some defense coming off the bench. IDK....could be fun.

In my mind going from Randle to Sabonis would be fun. What's the difference in defense especially considering the rebounding Sabonis would give you? Yeah I'm not sure it would work either and the Wolves first this year is quite a bit worse than Charlotte but if his price is that low...man it's tempting but I always been a Sabonis fan even if obviously he has his flaws too.

Are you thinking that you'd run Sabonis and Gobert? If you can convince him to shoot more that could work but I'm kinda over running these type of wonky lineups.

Ant
Jaden
Naz
Sabonis
Rudy

Would be hilarious tho

Sure I would be fine playing those 2 together and live with some of the consequences...in theory which is all anyone here is considering. Naz playing the 3...idk how wonky it is or isn't.

I think one of the issues with adding Sabonis is that if Beringer is actually capable of playing some minutes next year this trade doesn't do much in terms of opening up playing time for him. Idk how much the Wolves should plan around giving him playing time but it might be something that keeps me from making the Sabonis move which as it's been discussed has its various issues.

[Q-is-here]

I wouldn't see Sabonis as a fit in any other capacity except Center, so to me it would be no Rudy and no Randle. Perhaps one of them gets you Sabonis, the other gets you a 3rd guard that can play with Ant and Ayo, and may be there is some draft capital coming back to us as well.

I seriously doubt Connelly is targeting Sabonis BTW, but it's a fun thought-exercise.

[WildWolf2813]

In an alternate universe where we didn't trade for Rudy, Kept KAT, instead of Rudy we traded for OG and Nembhard with all of those draft picks. That seems like the right balance around Ant similar to how some of the top teams are constructed. Nembhard, Ant, Jaden, OG, Kat starting lineup. Never going to happen now, but a similar lineup to this seems like the right direction for an Ant team. No major 2nd star there, but the right role players and defense.

trading for OG would have cost you Jaden.

Unlikely. NY gave up Barret, Quickly and a 2nd round pick for OG. In the hypothetical above, you still have all of those players and draft picks pre Rudy trade- plenty there to add someone who was clearly not of the same caliber as Rudy at that time without giving up someone like Jaden.

Probably could have done a similar collection of players as were given up for Rudy and less draft picks

the point is Toronto took the players instead of a pick laden package even though that was available to them then.