Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Monster]

Is anyone else coming to the conclusion also that TSJ is gone? I like him and don’t want him gone, but what other positive and tradeable assets are left? I see TSJ and green being combined for a starting level PF. I’m a big fan of TSJ and I hope I’m wrong, but that’s what I see as being left. They’ve said DDv is staying.

I thinking that’s a distinct possibility but I believe it would be a mistake. I think we can succeed with Jaden as our starting PF with Rudy, Ball, Ayo and Ant. We just need to sign a rotation PF with size as a free agent to rotate in for certain matchups or situations. Ball gives us unique length and rebounding at the PG position. Ant and Ayo aren’t small and are very strong. Jaden can hold his own defensively against the vast majority of NBA PFs. TSJ is very strong and physical.

I would sign Andre Drummond and Kyle Anderson to vet minimum deals and sign either Jeremy Sochan or Precious Achiuwa using the taxpayer MLE. We’ll also have Beringer and we’ll have Rocco on a 2-way. That more than adequate in my view and a much better alternative than trading TSJ.

I’ll note also that Green has value as a highly athletic defensive rotation wing who can hit threes. He also has value as an expiring contract and that will be important as we plan for the next few years. We’ll need some financial flexibility and need to avoid hitting the second apron again.

I was actually thinking the same about TSJ also. Here is the maybe somewhat uncomfortable reality. He has shown flashes but hasn't actually broken through yet. Acquiring Ball as a playmaker scorer lessens me holding our hope that TSJ becomes a bit of a star. I'm not saying in giving up on him at all but if some team valued him pretty highly maybe it would make sense to cash in on a bigger forward. I'm not saying trade him for a vet but maybe a younger guy someone promising as well Tari Eason might be that type of guy if he wasn't looking at his 2nd contract. I guess TSJ and Green for an Eason sign and trade if that's even logistically possible. I'm not super desperate to get another big actually but if there is the right opportunity trading TSJ might actually make sense.

We drafted Beringer I see no reason to sign a vet true center if you ever want to see Beringer to play. Matt Lloyd looked practically giddy talking about Beri her after the 2nd round. He needs to at least be the Gobert backup.

I can't quit Kyle Anderson.

[D-Loser25]

Is anyone else coming to the conclusion also that TSJ is gone? I like him and don’t want him gone, but what other positive and tradeable assets are left? I see TSJ and green being combined for a starting level PF. I’m a big fan of TSJ and I hope I’m wrong, but that’s what I see as being left. They’ve said DDv is staying.

I thinking that’s a distinct possibility but I believe it would be a mistake. I think we can succeed with Jaden as our starting PF with Rudy, Ball, Ayo and Ant. We just need to sign a rotation PF with size as a free agent to rotate in for certain matchups or situations. Ball gives us unique length and rebounding at the PG position. Ant and Ayo aren’t small and are very strong. Jaden can hold his own defensively against the vast majority of NBA PFs. TSJ is very strong and physical.

I would sign Andre Drummond and Kyle Anderson to vet minimum deals and sign either Jeremy Sochan or Precious Achiuwa using the taxpayer MLE. We’ll also have Beringer and we’ll have Rocco on a 2-way. That more than adequate in my view and a much better alternative than trading TSJ.

I’ll note also that Green has value as a highly athletic defensive rotation wing who can hit threes. He also has value as an expiring contract and that will be important as we plan for the next few years. We’ll need some financial flexibility and need to avoid hitting the second apron again.

I was actually thinking the same about TSJ also. Here is the maybe somewhat uncomfortable reality. He has shown flashes but hasn't actually broken through yet. Acquiring Ball as a playmaker scorer lessens me holding our hope that TSJ becomes a bit of a star. I'm not saying in giving up on him at all but if some team valued him pretty highly maybe it would make sense to cash in on a bigger forward. I'm not saying trade him for a vet but maybe a younger guy someone promising as well Tari Eason might be that type of guy if he wasn't looking at his 2nd contract. I guess TSJ and Green for an Eason sign and trade if that's even logistically possible. I'm not super desperate to get another big actually but if there is the right opportunity trading TSJ might actually make sense.

We drafted Beringer I see no reason to sign a vet true center if you ever want to see Beringer to play. Matt Lloyd looked practically giddy talking about Beri her after the 2nd round. He needs to at least be the Gobert backup.

I can't quit Kyle Anderson.

Yeah, no centers needed. I like the Eason idea

[Wolvesfan21]

There aren't really a lot of good options out there for what we need, huh?

Tim Connelly is going to have to work some magic here.

Given all these guards, it's hard not to imagine that he'll definitely move Green, and probably strongly consider trading Donte's expiring contract, though it's not clear what value that could bring back. With the lottery reform, it takes away the incentive for a team to trade for Donte in order to be bad one more year before trying to sign him next offseason and bounce back a bit.

We're in a tough spot when it comes to trying to get a decent PF who can space the floor (this is absolutely needed next to Rudy or Beringer) and balance out this roster a little.

Agreed that 3 & D to me seems like the archetype that would help max out our potential. Shooting the 3 is probably the most important, then defense and rebounding next in the value of importance.

It really depends at what price point we are looking at too, depending if we even combined both DDV and Green into one player for that higher end PF so we could be looking at guys really from the vet min at 2.5 or whatever to 25 million. I think the spread of potential players is quite wide.

Yes, combining DDV and Josh Green into one salary would yield a higher end piece, but who the heck is going to give up a $25M+ player for those two guys unless it's a complete malcontent? DDV is out for nearly the entire year and Green is a very limited role player. We'd have to spice up the deal with something, like a first rou....oh, nevermind, we really don't have any!

Yeah it would have to be a player that is more of a salary dump then positive asset to that team, which makes that a tough list to come up with. We can't sweeten it either with picks.

IDK which teams have a player who they'd like to get off of which is still a positive to us? I think it's still a possibility though.

[Monster]

I’ve been looking at rosters and couldn’t come up with a starting PF or C would could realistically get in a trade given the assets we have. So that means targeting the best potential rotation bigs we can realistically sign as free agents to a contract starting at no more than $6M next season.

Looking at size, stats, and player scouting analyses and last year’s salary of the guys on Q’s list, here’s who I come up with:

POWER FORWARDS
1. Jeremy Sochan - Great motor, relentless defender, good rebounder, still young and improving. Sort of a Rodman type with so far apparently without he high basketball IQ and not the same caliber rebounder. Two years ago at age 21 when he got significant minutes (25), he averaged 11.4 points, 6.5 boards while shooting 53.5%b from the field.

2. Precious Achiuwa - I liked him coming out of college and still do. Last season he averaged 24 minutes, 10 points, and 6.7 rebounds while shooting 53% from the field. His salary was only $2.1M.

3. Jock Londale - He averaged 22 minutes, 10.6 points, and 6 rebounds last season, while shooting 51.6% from the field. His salary last year was $2.3M (the vet minimum)

These three all have good size for the PF position and similarly decent offensive production in comparable minutes. Jeremy and Precious are also very athletic and mobile but Londale is a much better shooter. Precious is still relatively young a 26 but Londale is still in his prime at age 30. Sochan at age 23 is a guy who could still have a lot of upside and eventually become something much more than he is now. I wouldn’t go near Bagley. He has a reputation as a guy who doesn’t care and his stats relative to his tremendous physical gifts support that reputation.

CENTERS
1. Nick Richards - I think he’d be a nice addition. His salary was only $5.5 million last season, so maybe he’s get able but I suspect he’ll get more than the $6 million we have to offer in the free agent market. Nevertheless, I’d target him

2. Andre Drummond - He’s a 32 year old vet who used to be an elite rebounder. He’s still a very good rebounder and has excellent size. Last season he averaged 19.5 minutes, 6.4 points, 8.4 rebounds and 0.8 blocks. He’s big and strong and would provide much-needed muscle and rebounding inside. He made $5 million last season. Perhaps he’d come here to a team with legitimate title aspirations for the $6M taxpayer MLE.

3. Jaxon Hayes - Very long and young but seems to have a low basketball IQ.

Some other centers I’d be interested in but doubt we could sign as free agents:

1. Zach Collins (Chicago) - Made $17.5M last season
2. Mitchell Robinson (NY) - Made $15M last season
3. Robert Williams (POR) - Made $12M last season
4. Moritz Wagner (ORL) - Made $11M last season

Jock Londale in the game I watched in Atlanta played out of his mind in the first half might have been literally the best player on the floor. Of course they were playing the Nets but still. The 2nd half there were moments where I was like ah...this is why he is a chap rotation player not a starter or key rotation guy. Still for the vet min I'd be happy to get him.

If you want a stretch 4/5 Wagner might be a pretty good get. The question is will he have enough reason to leave the Magic playing with his Brother.

Richards I kinda doubt he gets much more than the minimum. I'd be happy to get him for that but as I mentioned in another post should we be signing a vet center when we have Beringer?

[Monster]

We should be looking for our own Sandro Mamukelashvili or Hartenstein or Champenie or whoever. Manu bounces around and now he is the hottest non star player in FA. Who are some moderately young players that have shown some signs of doing more than what they have already done? We have seen so many various players show legit improvement. In their mid 20's.

[Monster]

In his mock off-season for the Wolves Charlie Walton suggested signing Drew Eubanks to a vet min deal. I like that idea.

[WildWolf2813]

From a vet standpoint I think Kyle Anderson is a given.

Apparently Jaylen Clark is coming back which I don’t like but one less body to roster.


I’ve been steadfast about Bagley, but more importantly Tim is gonna need to put his scours to work for a longer term solution. Time for him to find his own Naz Reid. Take summer league seriously and get a kick ass roster together and seek help that way. Trey Kaufman-Renn is ok but treat him like any UDFA and find more bodies to compete with him. Don’t make his two way a given. The fact that our UDFA list is empty compared to everyone else is disconcerting.

[Monster]

From a vet standpoint I think Kyle Anderson is a given.

Apparently Jaylen Clark is coming back which I don’t like but one less body to roster.


I’ve been steadfast about Bagley, but more importantly Tim is gonna need to put his scours to work for a longer term solution. Time for him to find his own Naz Reid. Take summer league seriously and get a kick ass roster together and seek help that way. Trey Kaufman-Renn is ok but treat him like any UDFA and find more bodies to compete with him. Don’t make his two way a given. The fact that our UDFA list is empty compared to everyone else is disconcerting.

Often the Wolves have seemingly waited things out to sign guys. Sometimes that might make sense. It may just be the players they wanted chose a different spot. If they plan to keep Rocco on a 2 way and Pullin is a guy I would also want to keep they only have 1 2way spot that's currently held by Freeman. There are only so many roster spots when the off-season limit is 20. I think the NBA should consider increasing that but maybe that wouldn't actually be helpful. Sometimes signing guys at or after SL does make more sense. That's what happened with McLaughlin.

I've always liked Bagely too. He is reasonably productive. Idk if he has upped his BBIQ but I'm sure he has to some extent.

[Coolbreeze44]

Players over 6'7" in the Final Four playoff rotations (Knicks, Cleveland, Spurs, OKC):

Knicks - KAT and Mitchell Robinson
Spurs - Wemby and Luke Kornet
OKC - iHart, Chet, and Jaylin Williams
Cleveland - Allen, Mobley, and Dean Wade

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The projected rotation for the Wolves next season before we even make any further acquisitions features Rudy Gobert (7'1"), Jaden McDaniels (6'9" listed but we know he's even taller!), and Joan Beringer (6'11" but his agent said he's grown an inch since last year). So we basically have three 7-footers already in our projected rotation. And then we have decent size across the board at the guard/wing positions, with literally no one under 6'4".

Yet OMG we HAVE to go get a starting-caliber power forward!!! (I know not all of you are saying that).

Do we need some more forward depth? Absolutely. Guys are going to get hurt and we are going to need some experienced backups. But does Connelly need to do a bunch more cap gymnastics and give up someone like TJ or DDV (who the Wolves say they want to keep) to go acquire another higher-end forward? I don't think so.

To be fair, here are some first round picks you can add to your list:

Spurs - Jaden Quaintance, Tarris Reed - Both 6'-10"

OKC - Aday Mara - 7'-3"

Cleveland - Alex Karaban - 6'-8"

[Lipoli390]

From a vet standpoint I think Kyle Anderson is a given.

Apparently Jaylen Clark is coming back which I don’t like but one less body to roster.


I’ve been steadfast about Bagley, but more importantly Tim is gonna need to put his scours to work for a longer term solution. Time for him to find his own Naz Reid. Take summer league seriously and get a kick ass roster together and seek help that way. Trey Kaufman-Renn is ok but treat him like any UDFA and find more bodies to compete with him. Don’t make his two way a given. The fact that our UDFA list is empty compared to everyone else is disconcerting.

Often the Wolves have seemingly waited things out to sign guys. Sometimes that might make sense. It may just be the players they wanted chose a different spot. If they plan to keep Rocco on a 2 way and Pullin is a guy I would also want to keep they only have 1 2way spot that's currently held by Freeman. There are only so many roster spots when the off-season limit is 20. I think the NBA should consider increasing that but maybe that wouldn't actually be helpful. Sometimes signing guys at or after SL does make more sense. That's what happened with McLaughlin.

I've always liked Bagely too. He is reasonably productive. Idk if he has upped his BBIQ but I'm sure he has to some extent.

Here’s how Marvin Bagley is described on line, which aligns with how I’ve always viewed him:

“Questions about Marvin Bagley III's effort, motor, and defensive engagement have been a persistent theme throughout his NBA career. While he is highly athletic and has been praised for his energy as a rebounder and transition scorer, critics have frequently questioned his defensive focus and overall impact. A closer look at these criticisms reveals several key points of discussion across his professional tenures:

Defensive Engagement & Rim Protection: Throughout his time with the Sacramento Kings and Detroit Pistons, evaluators often highlighted his defensive struggles. Critics pointed to poor defensive awareness, a lack of consistent effort off the ball, and an inability to protect the rim as expected for a player of his size.

Offensive Limitations: Scouts and analysts on platforms like Reddit have questioned his motor in half-court sets. Critics suggest his offensive contributions occasionally boiled down to just sitting in the low block or waiting for lobs, rather than playing with a high-impact motor.Front Office and

Role Issues: The discourse surrounding his effort also became entangled with drama regarding how he was utilized. During his tenure in Sacramento, his agent famously criticized the Kings for mismanagement, and there were viral social media moments where Bagley liked or posted tweets questioning his role”

He’s a tremendous physical talent, which explains his high draft slot. But this is precisely the guy you stay away from - the player who grossly underachieves his talent because of inconsistent and inadequate effort. Think Darko and Kandiman.

I agree with Q that we shouldn’t be desperate to find a high-quality starting PF but we should find a free agent PF who rebounds well and defends. If we’re thinking longer term, that makes Achiuwa and especially Sochan even more attractive FA targets. Jock would be solid but he’s more of a shorter-term answer. We don’t need top-tier or even 2nd-tier players at every position in our starting lineup. We have two elite defenders - Rudy and Jaden - and one potentially elite defender in Ant. We have two elite offensive players - Ant and Mello - with one very good and potentially elite offensive players in Jaden.

When it comes to our depth, we have very good guards and wings with skill and size coming off the bench in Ayo, Green, TSJ, possibly Evans, and eventually Donte at the end of the season. And we have both Beringer and Rocco with a full year of NBA development under their respective belts. Add Drummond for depth at the Center position. He’s still a high-level rebounder and good defender who can bang people like Wemby around when needed and back up Rudy if Beringer and Rocco aren’t quite ready. Sign Achiuwa or Sochan along with Kyle Anderson. That’s all we really need to do. This team will rise or fall on the health and performance of Ant, Ball, Jaden, Ayo and Rudy, which is no different from any other team aspiring to a championship. It comes down mainly (not entirely) to 3 or 4 core high-level guys.

Finally, a few thoughts on Beringer and Rocco. We keep discussing team needs up front as if Beringer and Rocco don’t exist this coming season. I get that they’re young and can’t necessarily be counted on. But Ball has a history of missing games so honestly he can’t be “counted on.” There are risks/rewards with every player. Ball has an injury history. That’s the risk with him. Beringer and Rocco are young and relatively inexperienced. That’s the risk associated with them. But no risk, no reward. It’s time to factor those two player more prominently into the equation. Both are 20 years old entering their second NBA season. They didn’t get many minutes in the NBA last season, but they did get some. They had lots of PT in the G-League and they spent a lot of time practicing with seasoned players on a high-level playoff team under the tutelage of top NBA coaches. Let’s get them on the court, surrounded by experienced high-level talent like Ant, Ball, Jaden, Rudy, and Ayo. Winning teams don’t shy away from putting 20-year olds on the court for substantial minutes. Here are a few examples:

Cason Wallace (OKC)
- Rookie Season (20 yrs.): 20.6 minutes/82 games
- 2nd Season (21 yrs.). 27.6 minutes/68 games

Stephon Castle (SA)
- Rookie Season (20 yrs.): 26.7 minutes/81 games
- 2nd Season (21 yrs.): 30.0 minutes/68 games

Dylan Harper (SA)
- Rookie Season (19 yrs.): 22.6 minutes/69 games

Jamal Murray (DEN)
- Rookie Season (19 yrs.): 21.5 minutes/82 games
- 2nd Season (20 yrs.): 31.7 minutes/80 games (Denver was a contender and finished with 46 wins that season)

Jared McCain (Sixers/OKC)
- Rookie Season (20 yrs.): 25.7 minutes/23 games (missed most of season w/ACL injury. Sixers not tanking
- 2nd Season (21 yrs.): 17.3 minutes/67 games (played with both Sixers and OKC that season)

Those are just some examples of competitive teams trying to get to the playoffs and win a championship playing 19, 20 and 21 year old rookies and 2nd year players major meaningful minutes. Those players helped their teams win and importantly got the chance to develop through actual NBA playing time to get even better down the road. It’s time to stop the “too young” or “too inexperienced” narrative and see what our young bigs can do and develop them over the course of the season before the playoffs. Meanwhile, signing Drummond, Kyle Anderson and one of Sochan, Achiuwa or Jock Landale would give us the depth and insurance needed to move forward with our impressive core for a championship run next season and thereafter.