Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Monster]

Something to think about.

Until a few weeks ago the Wolves biggest question for all of Connelly's tenure was the PG position or the guy that was gonna play with/next to Edwards. Russell wasn't the guy and he was dealt for good value bringing back Conley a guy that was more than a placeholder. Connelly looked for a high upside guy and trade for a pick and took Dillingham which I think the move to get a pick was a great but Dillingham didn't work.

Which brings us to last off-season. Conley was clearly dropping off even if some people like myself felt like he might bounce back he was clearly not going to be a guy you could lean on for 30mpg. That was proven true as the season went on. Going into the season Dillingham was supposed to be the guy of the future and hopefully at least some that season and while there was some questions about him it was reasonable to hope he was at least part of the solution at least off the bench and then in the future. Even though TSJ wasn't a PG he seemed to be a guy primed to be a big contributor as a guy to help the offense but he ended up being injured a large chunk of the season. Last off-season everyone on this board wanted some real depth at PG because there were real questions about that spot. We kicked around quite a few names. It wasn't quite as desperate (plus the group of possible options was a little more appealing and seemingly capable) but it was a fairly big topic of discussion.

So when did the Wolves and Tim Connelly "resolve" this situation with a signing? Bones Highland officially signed September 15th. That was not exactly met with fanfare from this board. Bones ended up being a pretty key player for the Wolves in the regular season. He wasn't as good in the playoffs but Conley also kinda found a groove too.

So it's almost the end of July. There is easily still a month to go where the Wolves could sign someone that could be a worthwhile contributor in the frontcourt this season. Connelly has already signed a guy he is familiar with in Lyles but I could see them signing a younger experienced player that more of the ilk of Bones a guy in his mid 20's that's played a decent chunk of basketball but hasn't put it together yet. Lets see who all shakes loose the next few weeks.

I'll also add that Bones Hyland after this season will have full bird rights because he has been under contract for parts of 3 seasons with the Wolves because the 2-way deal he signed does count toward that clock. That's another benefit for players on 2-way deals they can accumulate time towards having bird rights and a team can maybe pay more than some other teams. I would assume that also would allow them to be signed and traded utilizing bird rights.

So maybe it's time to sit back and relax and see what happens next. I don't know if I will but it's probably not a bad idea. Lol

[SameOldNudityDrew]

When LeBron changed teams to Miami, it led to a chain reaction bringing Michael Beasley to the Wolves.

When LeBron James went back to Cleveland, it led to a chain reaction bringing Andrew Wiggins to the Wolves.

With LeBron James going to Philly, the chain reaction is going to be signing KCP and the waiving of PF Johni Broome, a stout, physical rebounder. He is a decent 3 point shooter and good defender. 6'10", 250lbs, 7' wingspan and 9' standing reach. I remember him in college as a physically dominant presence. He could very well fill a need for this team.

Yup. There is talk of Philly waiving and stretching Broome.

I remember liking both Freeman and Broome in that draft as potential 2nd round picks for the Wolves.

I would still prefer Olynyk or Love...

Yeah, with Rudy and Beringer as our other bigs, we absolutely need another big who can stretch the floor and those two could. Olynyk would bring a bit more ball movement and Love could bring a bit more rebounding.

We're scraping the barrel here, but that's the situation we're in.

I don't see a trade for a more starting-level player coming. I do think Finch will be pressured to get creative and play plenty of small lineups and asking plenty of guys (Ant, Melo, Ayo, Green, TJ, or Clark) to try matching up against 3s or 4s, depending on who Jaden is guarding. A lot will be matchup-dependent, obviously.

Somebody from that list could surprise us. Maybe Green turns out to be a pretty stout defender and gets a lot of burn because he can hit shots. Maybe Clark's shot is falling this year, and if so, he becomes a really good fit in the starting lineup on nights when the opposing starting lineup can't use size to punish Melo, Ant, Clark, and Jaden. I think TJ should really be playing mostly whenever Melo and/or Ant are on the bench, but with all these guards, he'll have to guard some big guys too, and he has some nice size. I like Ayo a lot, but I don't think he's as strong or big as those other three. Ant is stronger, but we need to be careful not to put too much on his plate defensively. Melo will have to be put on the opposing team's worst offensive player most nights, so there will definitely be nights when that puts him on some weak but long opposing forwards, which could make things easier.

Still, it feels like we've got kind of the equivalent of a "running back by committee" approach for this role. I assume nobody's going to like rotating starting lineups, least of all Finch, but that might be what we end up getting at least at the beginning of the year. All of which makes me think we're going to see plenty of Trey Lyles this year.

Again, I think Lyles is good for what we need, and it wouldn't completely surprise me if he ended up being the regular starter, but playing limited minutes depending on matchups and because we have all these guys (Ayo, Green, TJ, Bones, Clark) who can play too and will need minutes. Still, if this small-ball stuff doesn't work, having Olynyk or Love as another big who can stretch the floor would be basically a necessary insurance policy at this point. It absolutley HAS to be a guy who can stretch the floor, because every minute will have either Rudy or Beringer out there as the other big.

We'll see. Should be interesting!

[Lipoli390]

https://youtu.be/pZSHcudhtOk?si=PLmFA4tbD6GfGrbv

I think this take by Phil and Judd is spot on. This PF issue is WAY overblown by many. As Phil points out, our front office maintained our defensive floor by keeping Rudy and Jaden while blowing the lid off our offensive potential by adding LaMello Ball after already adding Ayo late last season. We now have three players - Ant, LaMello and Ayo - who are elite shooters as well as terrific ball handlers who can pass and playmake. Phil pointed out that the last two seasons, Ball and Ant have matched the 3-point shooting of Curry and Thompson during the Warriors championship dynasty period. Yes, we’ve lost the scoring of Randle and Naz, but those two don’t unlock or facilitate the offensive of others. In contrast, Ball and Ayo do. If we can get Donte back late in the season and for the playoffs, then this team’s offense can be incredible. Moreover, with Ball and Ayo taking a lot of the offensive pressure off Ant, it’s likely that Ant’s defense will improve and actually lift our defensive floor.

I’ll add that even the best teams have a marginal player among their starting five. As an example, the Bulls had Luc Longley or Bill Weddington as their starting center for multiple championships. As of now, our 5th starter will likely be Trey Lyles, Josh Green, Jaylen Clark or TSJ. I don’t think we can complain much about Trey Lyles as our 5th option in a starting lineup that includes Ball, Ant, Jaden and Rudy. Trey Lyles can’t be worse defensively than Randle as our starting PF and we now have Ball and Ayo for a full season to create a far more dynamic offense. The other options for 5th starter bring things to the table that Randle didn’t provide.

My main concern is rebounding and scoring off the bench, not necessarily who starts at a particular position. Randle and Naz provided a lot of rebounds and Naz provided terrific offensive punch, including 3-point shooting off the bench. And of course, we had Donte. But we’ll have Ayo off the bench for the full season. We’ll need to get offensive punch and hopefully decent defense off the bench. Assuming Trey starts at PF, we’ll be looking to one or more of the following to provide what we need off the bench: TSJ, Josh Green, Jaylen Clark, Bones. TSJ has shown multiple flashes of being a high-level NBA player. Clark is already a high-level NBA defender with 3-point potential. Green is a very good defender who is also a very good low-volume corner three shooter. Bones can light it up as well as handle the ball.

Every potential title-contender heading into next season has weaknesses. The one exception might be the Sixers, which of course is why LeBron went there.

[Monster]

https://youtu.be/pZSHcudhtOk?si=PLmFA4tbD6GfGrbv

I think this take by Phil and Judd is spot on. This PF issue is WAY overblown by many. As Phil points out, our front office maintained our defensive floor by keeping Rudy and Jaden while blowing the lid off our offensive potential by adding LaMello Ball after already adding Ayo late last season. We now have three players - Ant, LaMello and Ayo - who are elite shooters as well as terrific ball handlers who can pass and playmake. Phil pointed out that the last two seasons, Ball and Ant have matched the 3-point shooting of Curry and Thompson during the Warriors championship dynasty period. Yes, we’ve lost the scoring of Randle and Naz, but those two don’t unlock or facilitate the offensive of others. In contrast, Ball and Ayo do. If we can get Donte back late in the season and for the playoffs, then this team’s offense can be incredible. Moreover, with Ball and Ayo taking a lot of the offensive pressure off Ant, it’s likely that Ant’s defense will improve and actually lift our defensive floor.

I’ll add that even the best teams have a marginal player among their starting five. As an example, the Bulls had Luc Longley or Bill Weddington as their starting center for multiple championships. As of now, our 5th starter will likely be Trey Lyles, Josh Green, Jaylen Clark or TSJ. I don’t think we can complain much about Trey Lyles as our 5th option in a starting lineup that includes Ball, Ant, Jaden and Rudy. Trey Lyles can’t be worse defensively than Randle as our starting PF and we now have Ball and Ayo for a full season to create a far more dynamic offense. The other options for 5th starter bring things to the table that Randle didn’t provide.

My main concern is rebounding and scoring off the bench, not necessarily who starts at a particular position. Randle and Naz provided a lot of rebounds and Naz provided terrific offensive punch, including 3-point shooting off the bench. And of course, we had Donte. But we’ll have Ayo off the bench for the full season. We’ll need to get offensive punch and hopefully decent defense off the bench. Assuming Trey starts at PF, we’ll be looking to one or more of the following to provide what we need off the bench: TSJ, Josh Green, Jaylen Clark, Bones. TSJ has shown multiple flashes of being a high-level NBA player. Clark is already a high-level NBA defender with 3-point potential. Green is a very good defender who is also a very good low-volume corner three shooter. Bones can light it up as well as handle the ball.

Every potential title-contender heading into next season has weaknesses. The one exception might be the Sixers, which of course is why LeBron went there.

I'll add to this post that Randle wasn't exactly a great rebounder last year he grabbed less than 7 rebounds a game. I'd guess Jaden playing a chunk of his minutes at PF could equal that. In addition Lyles is longer than Randle. Randle is more athletic though. Lyles and Reid are similar rebounders in terms of per 36 numbers. Solid for PFs but not exactly crushing the glass.

One of the benefits of having a guy like Lyles potential in the starting lineup or as a key rotation player is you don't HAVE to play him. If he isn't giving you what you need you can play him fewer minutes with less repercussions than benching a guy like Randle (or even Naz) who is a much more accomplished player. Obviously there is downsides to him since I think right now it's fair to consider him at best to be a fringe starter and I think right now that might be generous and I'm a big fan of adding Lyles. He might play well and he might fit exactly what the roster needs. How far off could he be from being say a PJ Washington type player? It kinda feels like this roster has a chance to really fit well together except for Rudy and Beringer if Beringer is worthy of playing more than just the C minutes Rudy doesn't play. Still that is a problem I could live with because that means Beringer is good and the Wolves have shooting from literally everyone else on the roster.

[Phenom]

Broome headed to the Clippers along with some seconds. TC sitting on his hands again.

[FNG]

Broome headed to the Clippers along with some seconds. TC sitting on his hands again.

Hahaha, not sure anyone has ever accused Dealin' Tim as sitting on his hands!

I liked Broome a little too, but I think a non-shooter like him needs to be next to a stretch 4 or 5...not sure he would have been right for us.

[Lipoli390]

Broome headed to the Clippers along with some seconds. TC sitting on his hands again.

Hahaha, not sure anyone has ever accused Dealin' Tim as sitting on his hands!

I liked Broome a little too, but I think a non-shooter like him needs to be next to a stretch 4 or 5...not sure he would have been right for us.

We’d better give up on this fantasy of getting a PF with both the length and bulk of the average PF who can also stretch the floor. As I read the case for adding another player with PF size (length and bulk) the case is based on the need for a player who can defend against the bulk and length of a lot of the League’s PFs and maybe help on the boards. We’ll be lucky to get a quality player with those attributes worth of a starting role or slot in the rotation. We already have a guy, Trey Lyles, who has PF size and the ability to hit from the perimeter. Kelley Olynyk has PF size and might still be able to stretch the floor, but he’s not an effective defender or rebounder at this point in his career. Same for Batum. Having PF size doesn’t mean anything if that size can’t effectively defend, which is the point of acquiring a player with PF size.

[60WinTim]

Broome headed to the Clippers along with some seconds. TC sitting on his hands again.

Hahaha, not sure anyone has ever accused Dealin' Tim as sitting on his hands!

I liked Broome a little too, but I think a non-shooter like him needs to be next to a stretch 4 or 5...not sure he would have been right for us.

We’d better give up on this fantasy of getting a PF with both the length and bulk of the average PF who can also stretch the floor. As I read the case for adding another player with PF size (length and bulk) the case is based on the need for a player who can defend against the bulk and length of a lot of the League’s PFs and maybe help on the boards. We’ll be lucky to get a quality player with those attributes worth of a starting role or slot in the rotation. We already have a guy, Trey Lyles, who has PF size and the ability to hit from the perimeter. Kelley Olynyk has PF size and might still be able to stretch the floor, but he’s not an effective defender or rebounder at this point in his career. Same for Batum. Having PF size doesn’t mean anything if that size can’t effectively defend, which is the point of acquiring a player with PF size.

I think it's a mistake to assume TC will acquire a "starting PF" somewhere along the way. My expectation is TC will acquire someone who will provide frontcourt depth. Our starting PF is likely already on the roster -- we just don't know who it will be, yet...

The Wolves already have 11 guys on the roster that think they ought to be in the rotation. And we know that ain't happening under Finch! I don't see TC adding a player that is slotting into the rotation, unless it is a trade that sends out one or more of those 11 guys.

[Coolbreeze44]

Hahaha, not sure anyone has ever accused Dealin' Tim as sitting on his hands!

I liked Broome a little too, but I think a non-shooter like him needs to be next to a stretch 4 or 5...not sure he would have been right for us.

We’d better give up on this fantasy of getting a PF with both the length and bulk of the average PF who can also stretch the floor. As I read the case for adding another player with PF size (length and bulk) the case is based on the need for a player who can defend against the bulk and length of a lot of the League’s PFs and maybe help on the boards. We’ll be lucky to get a quality player with those attributes worth of a starting role or slot in the rotation. We already have a guy, Trey Lyles, who has PF size and the ability to hit from the perimeter. Kelley Olynyk has PF size and might still be able to stretch the floor, but he’s not an effective defender or rebounder at this point in his career. Same for Batum. Having PF size doesn’t mean anything if that size can’t effectively defend, which is the point of acquiring a player with PF size.

I think it's a mistake to assume TC will acquire a "starting PF" somewhere along the way. My expectation is TC will acquire someone who will provide frontcourt depth. Our starting PF is likely already on the roster -- we just don't know who it will be, yet...

The Wolves already have 11 guys on the roster that think they ought to be in the rotation. And we know that ain't happening under Finch! I don't see TC adding a player that is slotting into the rotation, unless it is a trade that sends out one or more of those 11 guys.

Doug I think trading for a starting 4 is exactly what we need to do. We can afford to give up a decent roster asset for the right guy. And like I said before, there are so many guys out there that could be a great fit. I'm looking for roster balance that would make us a realistic contender. We don't have that right now. And I hear the budget names being thrown around and I know that isn't the answer. We don't need a garbage player on his last legs or a younger guy who could "help". We need a decent piece that can start. We got the point guard we badly needed since the day Cool told everyone we badly needed a point guard. Don't stop there, now is the time to go for it. Take another swing and let's try to win this damn thing.

[AussieWolf3]

We’d better give up on this fantasy of getting a PF with both the length and bulk of the average PF who can also stretch the floor. As I read the case for adding another player with PF size (length and bulk) the case is based on the need for a player who can defend against the bulk and length of a lot of the League’s PFs and maybe help on the boards. We’ll be lucky to get a quality player with those attributes worth of a starting role or slot in the rotation. We already have a guy, Trey Lyles, who has PF size and the ability to hit from the perimeter. Kelley Olynyk has PF size and might still be able to stretch the floor, but he’s not an effective defender or rebounder at this point in his career. Same for Batum. Having PF size doesn’t mean anything if that size can’t effectively defend, which is the point of acquiring a player with PF size.

I think it's a mistake to assume TC will acquire a "starting PF" somewhere along the way. My expectation is TC will acquire someone who will provide frontcourt depth. Our starting PF is likely already on the roster -- we just don't know who it will be, yet...

The Wolves already have 11 guys on the roster that think they ought to be in the rotation. And we know that ain't happening under Finch! I don't see TC adding a player that is slotting into the rotation, unless it is a trade that sends out one or more of those 11 guys.

Doug I think trading for a starting 4 is exactly what we need to do. We can afford to give up a decent roster asset for the right guy. And like I said before, there are so many guys out there that could be a great fit. I'm looking for roster balance that would make us a realistic contender. We don't have that right now. And I hear the budget names being thrown around and I know that isn't the answer. We don't need a garbage player on his last legs or a younger guy who could "help". We need a decent piece that can start. We got the point guard we badly needed since the day Cool told everyone we badly needed a point guard. Don't stop there, now is the time to go for it. Take another swing and let's try to win this damn thing.

I have no issues with the idea of trading for a starting quality PF, but I struggle to see a realistic option, unless you get further into the season an Ayo becomes tradable. That could hurt tho

Green, Ayo, Shannon and DDV are your tradable assets half of which are untradable at the moment. By "tradable" i mean that they are the current pieces that can be moved without a significant disruption to the roster I.e. Rudy, Ant or Jaden