Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Lipoli390]

I think it's a mistake to assume TC will acquire a "starting PF" somewhere along the way. My expectation is TC will acquire someone who will provide frontcourt depth. Our starting PF is likely already on the roster -- we just don't know who it will be, yet...

The Wolves already have 11 guys on the roster that think they ought to be in the rotation. And we know that ain't happening under Finch! I don't see TC adding a player that is slotting into the rotation, unless it is a trade that sends out one or more of those 11 guys.

Doug I think trading for a starting 4 is exactly what we need to do. We can afford to give up a decent roster asset for the right guy. And like I said before, there are so many guys out there that could be a great fit. I'm looking for roster balance that would make us a realistic contender. We don't have that right now. And I hear the budget names being thrown around and I know that isn't the answer. We don't need a garbage player on his last legs or a younger guy who could "help". We need a decent piece that can start. We got the point guard we badly needed since the day Cool told everyone we badly needed a point guard. Don't stop there, now is the time to go for it. Take another swing and let's try to win this damn thing.

I have no issues with the idea of trading for a starting quality PF, but I struggle to see a realistic option, unless you get further into the season an Ayo becomes tradable. That could hurt tho

Green, Ayo, Shannon and DDV are your tradable assets half of which are untradable at the moment. By "tradable" i mean that they are the current pieces that can be moved without a significant disruption to the roster I.e. Rudy, Ant or Jaden

By your definition, I don’t think Ayo is tradable. Moving him would definitely be a significant disruption to our roster. This team is now guard-centric. It’s built for mobility, ball-handling, speed and shooting. Ayo is a critical part of that. With his 6’10.25 wingspan, Ayo is also part of our size advantage at the guard position. His importance is further heightened by LaMallo’s ankle issues that have kept him off the court for a lot of games before last season and limited him minutes last season. DDV’s Achilles makes him almost untradable from a different perspective - i.e. teams won’t give up value for him given the likelihood he won’t play at all next season after which his contract expires.

Our only pre-season tradable assets realistically are Green (good role player on expiring contract) and TSJ (talented offensive player with upside). I’m not sure what starting-caliber PF with size we could get for those two in September. And that’s before you consider the payroll/cap implications of various trades. As we’ve discussed before, even if we could get PJ Washington for Green and TSJ, his contract would be highly problematic from a second-apron standpoint. In all likelihood we’re going to have to live with Trey Lyles and perhaps Kevin Love at PF the way the championship Bulls lived and thrived with Bill Weddinton and Luc Longley at the center position. That’s not fatal to the Wolves chances of a title run if (1) Ball comes through and pairs well with Ant as expected; (2) Jaden and Ant both continue to improve individually as they have up until now; (3) Ayo picks up where he left off in the playoffs; and (4) TSJ or Clark takes a significant step forward. The first three have a high probability of coming to pass. The 4th is less certain but we’ve seen enough from both to have some confidence that at least one of them will come through - Clark developing a consistent corner three shot and/or TSJ shoring up his defense and being consistent.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Kelly Olynyk still waiting behind the scenes for a better situation (more money) than the Wolves?

[60WinTim]

Kelly Olynyk still waiting behind the scenes for a better situation (more money) than the Wolves?

I doubt it's more money. He probably is hopeful the Spurs bring him back -- they have one open roster spot. He'll have suiters, and I am sure TC has maintained contact with him. The question is "what Plan X is Olynyk?" in TC's playbook...

[Coolbreeze44]

Olynyk is not the answer, nor is Batum or Sochan. Here are just some of the names that would be a great fit: Nikola Jovic, Sam Hauser, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Jae'Sean Tate, Obi Toppin, and Ronald Holland. Do what it takes to get one of these guys.

[60WinTim]

Olynyk is not the answer, nor is Batum or Sochan. Here are just some of the names that would be a great fit: Nikola Jovic, Sam Hauser, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Jae'Sean Tate, Obi Toppin, and Ronald Holland. Do what it takes to get one of these guys.

I’m sure Jaden can fetch you one of those guys. Most of the potential guys just aren’t available, especially with no draft capital to offer.

Miles Turner crossed my radar, but I’m not sure it would leave enough cap space to fill out the roster. Kuzma would be a no-go in my book, as is PJ Washington. I suspect TC will add a depth guy and see how it all shakes out to start the season. An in-season trade is certainly a possibility.

[Monster]

Olynyk is not the answer, nor is Batum or Sochan. Here are just some of the names that would be a great fit: Nikola Jovic, Sam Hauser, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Jae'Sean Tate, Obi Toppin, and Ronald Holland. Do what it takes to get one of these guys.

I’m sure Jaden can fetch you one of those guys. Most of the potential guys just aren’t available, especially with no draft capital to offer.

Miles Turner crossed my radar, but I’m not sure it would leave enough cap space to fill out the roster. Kuzma would be a no-go in my book, as is PJ Washington. I suspect TC will add a depth guy and see how it all shakes out to start the season. An in-season trade is certainly a possibility.

I see Cool has joined the frey on finding options!

Cool I'm curious about why you are so interested in Tate. I mean I've always liked the guy but I'm not sure he is a guy we gotta get. He resigned on a 1 year deal with the Rockets so we are gonna have to wait a few months before we can acquire him. Same with Eason.

Jovic has a bad contract if he is the guy he was last season. I'd guess if the Wolves were interested in him he might already be on the roster.

Pretty much all the rest of those guys I have no idea what the Wolves are gonna offer to get them.

Tim l agree with you that Turner is likely simply too expensive to fit into this roster at this point plus the Wolves would likely have to give up some legit assets to get him. It's kinda the same thing with PJ Washington in terms of he costs too much but I would think it wouldn't cost much in terms of assets to acquire him. I wonder if at some point Kuzma takes a buyout. It looks to me like it's possible the Bucks have enough front court players he doesn't play a whole lot. For a vet min he might be more than useful here with a chance to play legit minutes for a good team and a good PG setting him up. The Bucks may want to hold onto him as a salary match in trades so it could be a while before a buyout happens unless Kuzma decides to give up a bigger chunk than just vet min money. I wouldn't bet very strongly on him having a resurgence but I wouldn't completely rule it out.

[Lipoli390]

Olynyk is not the answer, nor is Batum or Sochan. Here are just some of the names that would be a great fit: Nikola Jovic, Sam Hauser, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Jae'Sean Tate, Obi Toppin, and Ronald Holland. Do what it takes to get one of these guys.

We don’t have anything close to the tradable assets needed to get Jabari Smith. Getting him isn’t remotely realistic. I’d love to get Tari Eason, but the Rockets just signed him to a 5-year deal with a 10% trade kicker. The Rockets obviously value Eason highly and likely have no interest in trading him for any of our tradable assets. Moreover, Tari can’t be traded before December 15. So as much as I’d love to get one of these two on our roster, there’s no realistic path to get either one.

Ronald Holland is 205 lbs (197 lbs at the combine) with a standing reach of 6’8 and a wingspan of 6’10.75. We already have multiple players who match his bulk and length. He’s no more of a PF than multiple guys on our current roster. Oh, and he’s a career 24.6% three-point shooter. Why on earth would we trade any asset for him? Tate is 230 lbs, but he’s only 6’4 with a 6’8 wingspan. He’s about the same size as Ant but with a shorter wingspan. He’s not significantly more bulky and has a slightly shorter wingspan than TSJ (230 lbs v 220 lbs/6’8 v. 6’9). He’s a career 31% low-volume three-point shooter. Why would we trade any valuable asset for him? Neither he nor Holland comes close to anyone who should slotted in as our starting PF and I don’t see either one as a sensible part of the rotation. If the point is to add bulk for defensive purposes, we wouldn’t get that from Holland. If the point is to stretch the floor next to Rudy, we wouldn’t get that from Holland or Tate.

I’d take Jeremy Sochan or Kevin Love in a heartbeat over Holland or Tate. Sochan is a better rebounder than Holland or Tate, bigger than either one and has lots of upside those two do not have. Further, Sochan’s 3-point shooting is no worse than either of those two. Kevin Love is a much better three-point shooter and rebounder (even at his age) than Holland or Tate.

The only two on your list who might make sense for the Wolves and might be obtainable for the tradable assets we have would be Nikola Jovic and Sam Hauser.

But I’m not sure I’d want to give up Green and TSJ (which is what it would take to match salaries) for Jovic. His regressed last season, which is a bad sign for a young player. He had abysmal stats last season, including 27% three-point shooting, 36.6% FG shooting and only 3.3 rebounds. Yes, he has PF length and bulk, although he doesn’t look strong. But what good is that size with that sort of production. We know what we’ll get from Green, have a very good idea of what we’ll get from Trey Lyles. Comparing TSJ’s stats to Jovic’s I’d take TSJ in a heartbeat. To get Jovic we’d have to give up both Green and TSJ, and we have no idea what we’ll get from him. If last season even close to what we can expect from him, he’d be a terrible bust. It’s a huge stretch to envision Jovic as our starting PF and a net positive rotation contributor based on what we’ve seen from him most recently.

That leaves us with Sam Hauser. I’d love to get him and I’d be willing to trade Green and TSJ. But I suspect the Celtics will be very reluctant to give him up. Moreover, his $10,848,215 salary would make a trade very challenging under cap rules because the Celtics can’t absorb the difference between Sam’s salary and Green’s. And we don’t have any draft assets to add as sweeteners to a third team.

Sorry to say that your suggested trade targets either make no sense for the Wolves (Holland, Tate, Jovic), or if they make sense for the Wolves (Tari Eason, Jabari Smith, Sam Hauser) there’s no realistic path to acquiring them.

I think we have a more realistic chance of acquiring PJ Washington via trade, but his contract would be a huge long-term problem for the Wolves. In fact, it’s his contract that would probably motivate the Mavs to trade him for a Green-centric package. Another problem is that Green and TSJ wouldn’t be enough to match salaries in a PJ deal. The only other player we should consider adding to a package for PJ would be Donte, but I don’t think the Mavs would view that as enough given Donte’s situation as a injured player who becomes an unrestricted FA at the end of next season. And it seems the Wolves don’t want to trade him anyway. I don’t see Houston being motivated at all to trade Eason or Smith - at least not for what we’d have to offer.

Faced with reality, it seems clear that adding size to our PF position will have to happen through free agency. And that likely means Sochan, Love, Batum or Olynyk. The good news is that we won’t have to give up any assets for any of those four or any other other free agent - assuming they’re willing to sign here for the vet minimum.

[Lipoli390]

This continuing discussion is a reminder of how getting LeBron would have been a huge coup for the Wolves. As much as I don’t like LeBron, I would have loved him here as part of the Wolves roster. He’s still an elite player and would have slotted in perfectly as our starting PF. Getting him at the vet minimum without giving up any assets always seemed too good to be true and that’s the way it turned out for us in the end. We would have to be one heck of a team with him added to the mix. I still think we’ll be very good and that we can contend for the title. But unfortunately, we’re back to rummaging through the scrap heap for a free agent or contemplating potentially viable trades for marginal players or unrealistic trades for good players who aren’t even as good as LeBron.

So I just come back to this. Just as the Bulls won multiple championships with Weddington or Luc Longley as their starting center and Paxon or Kerr as their staring PG with a core of MJ, Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc, the Wolves should be able to at least compete for a championship with Trey Lyles at PF, backed up by Jaden and TSJ at that position, and surrounded by a core of LaMello, Ant, Jaden, Ayo and Rudy. If that’s not enough to at least be a contender, then we have the wrong core.

[Lipoli390]

Olynyk is not the answer, nor is Batum or Sochan. Here are just some of the names that would be a great fit: Nikola Jovic, Sam Hauser, Jabari Smith, Tari Eason, Jae'Sean Tate, Obi Toppin, and Ronald Holland. Do what it takes to get one of these guys.

I’m sure Jaden can fetch you one of those guys. Most of the potential guys just aren’t available, especially with no draft capital to offer.

Miles Turner crossed my radar, but I’m not sure it would leave enough cap space to fill out the roster. Kuzma would be a no-go in my book, as is PJ Washington. I suspect TC will add a depth guy and see how it all shakes out to start the season. An in-season trade is certainly a possibility.

I see Cool has joined the frey on finding options!

Cool I'm curious about why you are so interested in Tate. I mean I've always liked the guy but I'm not sure he is a guy we gotta get. He resigned on a 1 year deal with the Rockets so we are gonna have to wait a few months before we can acquire him. Same with Eason.

Jovic has a bad contract if he is the guy he was last season. I'd guess if the Wolves were interested in him he might already be on the roster.

Pretty much all the rest of those guys I have no idea what the Wolves are gonna offer to get them.

Tim l agree with you that Turner is likely simply too expensive to fit into this roster at this point plus the Wolves would likely have to give up some legit assets to get him. It's kinda the same thing with PJ Washington in terms of he costs too much but I would think it wouldn't cost much in terms of assets to acquire him. I wonder if at some point Kuzma takes a buyout. It looks to me like it's possible the Bucks have enough front court players he doesn't play a whole lot. For a vet min he might be more than useful here with a chance to play legit minutes for a good team and a good PG setting him up. The Bucks may want to hold onto him as a salary match in trades so it could be a while before a buyout happens unless Kuzma decides to give up a bigger chunk than just vet min money. I wouldn't bet very strongly on him having a resurgence but I wouldn't completely rule it out.

If the Bucks buy out Kuzma, the Wolves should aggressively try to sign him for the vet minimum. We could tell him he’s first in line to slot in as our starting PF with the chance to complete for a title and re-vitalize his career. That should be tempting to him. If we wanted to trade for him, we’d have to give up both Green and Donte to make the salaries work.

[Lipoli390]

Another thought about trading for a PF. Obviously, any trade for a PF would invariably require the Wolves to send out Josh Green. All of us appear to be viewing Josh Green as nothing more than a contract to give up for a true PF. But as I think about it, it’s important to recognize that Green is a good player who would give the Wolves some things we really need given what we have and the type of team TC is putting together. Green is a very good defender and a very solid corner three shooter - two things we need on this team that TC is clearly building for speed and shooting. Moreover, Green brings toughness and high energy to a roster that lacks toughness and that’s coming off season where the energy came and went. In addition, Green was a valuable contributor to the Mavs’ success when they beat the Wolves on their way to the NBA finals two years ago. He’s smart, mature, tough, and highly athletic with NBA finals experience. And while his expiring contract has value as a trade asset, it also has considerable value to the Wolves as a team skirting the edge of the 2nd apron.