Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Monster]

Tim, I don't believe I undervalue Ayo at all...I have him just slightly less valuable than (a healthy) Donte, who was arguably one of our most valuable 2-way players last season. I would be quite surprised if the Wolves traded away an injured Donte. I would love to have them get PJ for pieces that we don't value as much as Ayo and Donte (Green, TJ, etc). but I can't see the Mavs giving up a starting PF for that. But you're right: The Mavs are now long on bigs and short on guards, and the Wolves are the opposite...that's why a deal makes so much sense. As much as I love Ayo, there is the "Ayo mystery" that we debated a lot last spring...how his teams have generally performed better when he was on the bench as opposed to on the court. I think we would still be fine at the guard position if we had to give up Ayo, and our PF issue would be solved with PJ/Lyles. I want TC to hang in there as long as he can with offers not including Donte or Ayo, but my sense is he'll eventually have to include one of them.

I don't think Ayo is untradeable, and he may be traded in a year once Donte is back to better balance out the roster. I don't think they move him at the deadline, unless a team really blows you away. Until that time, lets see what he can do healthy on this team. Last year he wasn't really healthy the entire time he was with us, but he was really hurting for that Spurs series. Scoring the 2nd most bench points in a playoff game in 50 years is a pretty impressive feat. And Ayo and Ball should really compliment each other on the fast break. Than again Donte and Ball really compliment each other as well with spacing. Hopefully Donte comes back this season, so we can see how he looks before we make a decision on trading Ayo. Ayo being 3 years younger than Donte and not coming off of a major injury favors Ayo long term here.

I agree. I’ll add that no player is ultimately untradeable in the long run. It’s situational. The only players on the Wolves roster who are absolutely untradeable at this moment are LaMello, Ant and Jaden because the Wolves are in full championship contention mode and those three guys are foundational to those championship aspirations. But I’d say that Rudy and Ayo are pretty darn close to being untradeable from the Wolves perspective right now. Rudy is critical to the team maintaining a decent defensive floor. Ayo is critical to the team’s ability to execute the obvious front office strategy, which is anchored in a dynamic, big backcourt with multiple ball-handlers, facilitators and shooters. Ayo fits that bill and does so far more than Donte does. Ayo is especially critical in light of Ball’s history of limited availability - whether it’s missing lots of games or being limited to 28 minutes per game as he was last season. We’ll also want to manage Ant’s minutes in light of his knee issues late last season. The way this team is built, we can’t afford a major drop off when Ball or Ant is off the court.

Even if someone views Donte as slightly more valuable than Ayo when Donte is fully healthy, that’s a moot point because Donte likely won’t even play next season and there’s no telling whether he’ll be the same player once he’s recovered from his surgery. I’ll add that it’s not an apples to apples comparison even if both are healthy. Donte is mainly a spot up shooter who also rebounds and provides great hustle and disruptive defense. Ayo is an excellent 3-point shooter as well with the same career 38% 3-pt average as Donte’s, but he’s also far more of a a ball-handler/playmaker than Donte. He’s also much longer than Donte with a 6’10.25 wingspan and 8’6 standing reach compared to Donte’s 6’6 wingspan and 8’1.5 standing reach. Ayo’s length makes him a much more versatile defender than Donte. Ayo is also a much more versatile and efficient scorer with a career FG average of 51.5%, which reflects the fact that Ayo is a terrific scorer on dribble penetration. Finally, Ayo’s age suggests he probably still has some untapped upside that Donte at his age clearly doesn’t have and that’s before considering Donte’s injury and its potential longer term impact on his game.

I’m a huge Donte fan and would not be eager to trade him if I were in charge. But I don’t consider him nearly as critical to the Wolves as Ayo. So I’d be willing to include Donte, but not Ayo, in a package for a starting caliber PF, depending of course on who it is. Nevertheless, I just don’t see teams assigning much value to Donte right now given that he likely won’t be available all season and becomes a free agent after the season. At this point he’d be sort of a throw in with marginal value (expiring contract and speculative long-term potential) for a acquiring team that values what Green and TSJ would bring to the table for them next season and beyond. If we could get PJ Washington, Jabari Smith or Myles Turner for Donte, Green and TSJ, I’d do the deal even though I think TSJ is going to be really good and in spite of the problematic financial implications for the Wolves.

I’ve given up trying to predict what TC will do, but I suspect he won’t trade Donte and I’m certain he won’t trade Ayo. So if we’re hoping for a trade to acquire a PF, it will be someone we can get for Green and TSJ. I don’t know who that would be or if any of the possibilities would be so much better than any of the current free agent bigs or the guys already on our roster that it would be worth losing both Green and TSJ.

I am absolutely against including TSJ for PJ Washington along with Donte and Green. He simply isn't that good of a player and the Mavs have added multiple players to take mins away from him. I'd honestly be kinda surprised if they didn't jump at the chance to add useful players on expiring contracts for him.

I think it's easy to start valuing players differently because of scarcity. PJ Washington is a nice enough player and I think would actually be a solid fit here but especially with his contract I'm not interested in overpaying in terms of assets to get him.

[Monster]

With talk of trading different players to add a big to the roster it's started to be clear to me that whole the wolves have liquidated all their future draft assets they can trade in future deals they do potentially have a cache of perimeter players and various directions they can go with them.

To me one of the big keys is TSJ does he become at really a good bench player? Maybe that means another player can be moredqybr that's Ayo as he and TSJ have some similarities in how they can have impact. Something to think about though Ayo is only like 7 months older than TSJ and TSJ is on his 1st round contract for a year after this season and then is a RFA. IF......TSJ becomes a pretty good player how much does he get in RFA?

Here are the Wolves perimeter players that aren't untradable and all of them have some level of upside or value.

Guys signed for at least 2 years
Ayo
TSJ
Clark

Guys on expiring deals but are also either extension eligible or Wolves have bird rights
Bones
Green
Donte

Young guys that could show something and make someone expendable. Evans likely has some trade value right now. Pullin looks more ready to contribute.
Evans
Pullin

It's unlikely all those guys hit but what if a couple of them step up? Maybe that makes someone more easily tradeable. Maybe a guy on an expiring contract is likely to resign and it lets you consider moving someone else. What if Pullin is sort of a legit high level backup PG? That could change things. What if Bones steps up his game? There are a number of legit players that could become reasonably valuable and either become a better trade chip or simply make the team better.

From that group there is potential for various tradable assets. The way the roster is right now it may allow some of these guys to get a chance to play some more minutes and get opportunities to show what they can and can't do. Most of these guys also have questions and could also kinda flop. I wouldn't hate seeing some of these guys get a chance to show whether they can play.

I'll also add here that having one player being THE defender especially with the group the Wolves have assembled doesn't seem like a good idea. It has to be a lot of work doing that all the time. Jaden is very good but he isn't blanketing people ever game every minute. That's a ton to ask of him or honestly anyone. I do think we should have some sort of reasonable or decent additional option that what we currently have so he can still guard on the perimeter some too. I also think having him play more this season as a PF could really benefit the team because he is such a good team and help defender too. At least one person has mentioned having a whole group of guys guarding. That sounds fun especially when you have Rudy and a super active energetic big in Beringer as your centers.

Again let's remember that various players have signed in September that ended up being worthwhile. Last year the Wolves signed Bones and Juzang. Juzang didn't take a hold of his opportunities but Bones did but Juzang was a somewhat intriguing young guy that had played a pretty decent chunk of NBA basketball. Garza was a guy that signed late and ended up being a solid developmental player for the Wolves beating out a vet for the last 2 way slot that year. There is another whole month or more that could go by without anything happening and that might not be terrible. All of us would kike to add someone that looks like a player that could actually reasonably help at least as a rotation guy or a spot starter but who knows if that player/s sign anytime soon. I'm gonna try and take a break and not worry about it plus as we know Connelly tends to do stuff nobody sees coming!

[Lipoli390]

I don't think Ayo is untradeable, and he may be traded in a year once Donte is back to better balance out the roster. I don't think they move him at the deadline, unless a team really blows you away. Until that time, lets see what he can do healthy on this team. Last year he wasn't really healthy the entire time he was with us, but he was really hurting for that Spurs series. Scoring the 2nd most bench points in a playoff game in 50 years is a pretty impressive feat. And Ayo and Ball should really compliment each other on the fast break. Than again Donte and Ball really compliment each other as well with spacing. Hopefully Donte comes back this season, so we can see how he looks before we make a decision on trading Ayo. Ayo being 3 years younger than Donte and not coming off of a major injury favors Ayo long term here.

I agree. I’ll add that no player is ultimately untradeable in the long run. It’s situational. The only players on the Wolves roster who are absolutely untradeable at this moment are LaMello, Ant and Jaden because the Wolves are in full championship contention mode and those three guys are foundational to those championship aspirations. But I’d say that Rudy and Ayo are pretty darn close to being untradeable from the Wolves perspective right now. Rudy is critical to the team maintaining a decent defensive floor. Ayo is critical to the team’s ability to execute the obvious front office strategy, which is anchored in a dynamic, big backcourt with multiple ball-handlers, facilitators and shooters. Ayo fits that bill and does so far more than Donte does. Ayo is especially critical in light of Ball’s history of limited availability - whether it’s missing lots of games or being limited to 28 minutes per game as he was last season. We’ll also want to manage Ant’s minutes in light of his knee issues late last season. The way this team is built, we can’t afford a major drop off when Ball or Ant is off the court.

Even if someone views Donte as slightly more valuable than Ayo when Donte is fully healthy, that’s a moot point because Donte likely won’t even play next season and there’s no telling whether he’ll be the same player once he’s recovered from his surgery. I’ll add that it’s not an apples to apples comparison even if both are healthy. Donte is mainly a spot up shooter who also rebounds and provides great hustle and disruptive defense. Ayo is an excellent 3-point shooter as well with the same career 38% 3-pt average as Donte’s, but he’s also far more of a a ball-handler/playmaker than Donte. He’s also much longer than Donte with a 6’10.25 wingspan and 8’6 standing reach compared to Donte’s 6’6 wingspan and 8’1.5 standing reach. Ayo’s length makes him a much more versatile defender than Donte. Ayo is also a much more versatile and efficient scorer with a career FG average of 51.5%, which reflects the fact that Ayo is a terrific scorer on dribble penetration. Finally, Ayo’s age suggests he probably still has some untapped upside that Donte at his age clearly doesn’t have and that’s before considering Donte’s injury and its potential longer term impact on his game.

I’m a huge Donte fan and would not be eager to trade him if I were in charge. But I don’t consider him nearly as critical to the Wolves as Ayo. So I’d be willing to include Donte, but not Ayo, in a package for a starting caliber PF, depending of course on who it is. Nevertheless, I just don’t see teams assigning much value to Donte right now given that he likely won’t be available all season and becomes a free agent after the season. At this point he’d be sort of a throw in with marginal value (expiring contract and speculative long-term potential) for a acquiring team that values what Green and TSJ would bring to the table for them next season and beyond. If we could get PJ Washington, Jabari Smith or Myles Turner for Donte, Green and TSJ, I’d do the deal even though I think TSJ is going to be really good and in spite of the problematic financial implications for the Wolves.

I’ve given up trying to predict what TC will do, but I suspect he won’t trade Donte and I’m certain he won’t trade Ayo. So if we’re hoping for a trade to acquire a PF, it will be someone we can get for Green and TSJ. I don’t know who that would be or if any of the possibilities would be so much better than any of the current free agent bigs or the guys already on our roster that it would be worth losing both Green and TSJ.

I am absolutely against including TSJ for PJ Washington along with Donte and Green. He simply isn't that good of a player and the Mavs have added multiple players to take mins away from him. I'd honestly be kinda surprised if they didn't jump at the chance to add useful players on expiring contracts for him.

I think it's easy to start valuing players differently because of scarcity. PJ Washington is a nice enough player and I think would actually be a solid fit here but especially with his contract I'm not interested in overpaying in terms of assets to get him.

“I think it's easy to start valuing players differently because of scarcity.” I quoted this part of your post because I think it’s a great insight, Monster. I’m going to start challenging my own thoughts with that insight. I also think many of us sometimes tend to overvalue players we’re not familiar with and undervalue those we’re know best. I find myself doing that. It’s a variant of the grass is always green syndrome. It’s important to be mindful of perspective.

[Lipoli390]

As we think about adding a PF to the roster, it’s worth looking past general impressions or supposition and looking at the numbers they put up on the court and because of the sense that we need to add a player with true PF size (both bulk and length), it’s important to look at those numbers too. I don’t think it’s worth looking at proven starting PFs like Jabari Smith or Myles Turner because they’re not realistically obtainable. And I don’t see a path to acquiring a Tari Eason either. The only proven starter we MIGHT be able to acquire would be PJ Washington, largely because of his contract - which is a good reason not to pursue him.

The following comparison starts with PJ Washington and goes down the list of players mentioned in this discussion as potential trade or free agent targets and also includes Trey Lyles. At the outset, I’ll point out that, except for PJ, none of these players has been a starter so if the point is to acquire a starting PF none of these guys has been in that role before. These stats are from the last full season the player have meaningful NBA minutes:

1. PJ Washington (2025-26)
Age: 27, ht: 6’6.5, Weight: 230, Reach: 8’10.5, Wingspan: 7’2.25
31 MPG, 14.1 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 45% FG, 32.5% 3-pt

2. Jeremy Sochan (2024-25)
Age: 23, ht: 6’8, Weight: 230, Reach: 8’11, Wingspan: 6’11.5
25.3 MPG, 11.4 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 2.4 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 53.5% FG, 30.8% 3-pt

3. Sam Hauser (2025-26)
Age: 28, Ht: 6’6.75, Weight: 217.4, Reach: 8’6, Wingspan: 6’9.25
24.8 MPG, 9.2 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 1.5 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 41.9% FG, 39.3% 3-pt

4. Ronald Holland (2025-26)
Age: 21, Ht: 6’6.5, Weight: 196.8, Reach: 8’8, Wingspan: 6’10.75
19.9 MPG, 8.2 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 43.2% FG, 25.3% 3-pt

5. Obi Toppin (2024-25)
Age: 28, Ht: 6’9 (listed), Weight: 220 (listed)/230 (est.), Wingspan: 6’11 (est.)
19.6 MPG, 10.5 PPG, 4.0 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 52.9% FG, 36.5% 3-pt

6. Trey Lyles (2024-25)
Age: 30, Ht: 6’9, Weight 241, Reach: 9’0, Wingspan 7’1.5
19.6 MPG, 10.5 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.2 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 42.0% FG, 34% 3-pt

7. Nikola Jovic (2025-26)
Age: 23, Ht: 6’9.5, Weight: 222.6, Reach: 9’0.5, Wingspan: 7’0.25
17.2 MPG, 7.3 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 2.2 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 36.6% FG, 26.9% 3-pt

8. Jae’Sean Tate (2023-24) (His minutes and production have been diminishing consistently since his rookie season).
Age: 30, Ht: 6’4 (listed), Weight: 230, Wingspan 6’8 (est.)
15.9 MPG, 4.1 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 47.2% FG, 29.9% 3-pt

9. Kelly Olynyk (2024-25)
Age: 35, Ht: 6’10.75, Weight: 234, Reach 9’0, Wingspan: 6’9.75
20.3 MPG, 8.7 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.4 BPG, 50.0% FG, 41.8% 3-pt

The numbers speak for themselves. Do any of these guys other than PJ and possibly Toppin, based on their numbers, look more like starters than Trey Lyles? Do any of them seem worth giving up both Josh Green and either TSJ or Donte? Maybe PJ Washington does, but then consider his contract. Also look closely and you’ll see that PJ’s numbers last season weren’t much better than Sochan’s the season before at age 21. Tate has the weight of a PF, but nowhere near the length. Ronald Holland has the length but no more bulk than Jaden, TSJ or Josh Green. Hauser is below the PF average in both bulk and length and isn’t much of a rebounder. Hauser, Toppin and Olynyk are the only good 3-point shooters based on their numbers, but Toppin and Olynyk are poor defenders and subpar rebounders.

[Monster]

These lists of possible options make me more interested in finding and signing a guy that could become the next Dean Wade or Hartenstein etc than signing some dude that is probably just a decent rotation player.

[Lipoli390]

These lists of possible options make me more interested in finding and signing a guy that could become the next Dean Wade or Hartenstein etc than signing some dude that is probably just a decent rotation player.

That’s a good way to look at it and I agree, Monster. Let’s see if TC and his brain trust of scouts, coaches and fellow Wolves front office executives can find the next Hartenstein. I happen to believe the great find is there for the taking - Jeremy Sochan.

[rapsuperstar31]

From Keith Smiths Western Conference Summer League Notebook on Spotrac.

Minnesota Timberwolves

On adding LaMelo Ball: “This was the kind of big move we needed to make to take the next step. LaMelo is really going to help our offense go to another level,” a Wolves front office executive said. “We also had to take some of the playmaking load off Ant (Anthony Edwards). We need him to be fresher at the start of the playoffs. The best way to do that was to add more playmaking and we got one of the best playmakers in the game.”

On the lack of size up front: “That’s the downside of the trade. We had to give up some size. The good news is that Rudy (Gobert) is still getting it done at a very high level. Jaden (McDaniels) can play either forward spot. Ant (Anthony Edwards) plays big and LaMelo is a big guard too,” a Minnesota front office executive said. “But it’s something we’ll continue to work on throughout the offseason and in-season too.”

On signing Trey Lyles: “Trey has a history of being a productive player in the NBA, and he was terrific for Real Madrid last season. There’s a good chance he starts for us and gives us more floor-spacing from that spot,” a Timberwolves assistant coach said.

On Joan Beringer: “Look, it’s Year 2, so we want to see steps forward. But Joan is 19 years old. We have to be conscious of that,” a Timberwolves front office executive said. “But here’s the thing: He wants it. Badly. We’re looking forward to seeing what he can give us this season.”

On Jaylen Clark and Terrence Shannon Jr.: “Big opportunities for both of them with Donte (DiVincenzo) out. They’ve both done well in spurts before, but this year we need real minutes from both of them. We’re confident they’re ready for the challenge,” a Minnesota front office executive said.

Summer League was rough for Isaiah Evans, but he’ll be better when the preseason comes around. Because the trade was delayed, Evans got thrown in with very little prep time. That’s tough for a guy who is a rhythm shooter.

[kekgeek]

There is a report out there the wolves looking to add Kuminga

[Lipoli390]

From Keith Smiths Western Conference Summer League Notebook on Spotrac.

Minnesota Timberwolves

On adding LaMelo Ball: “This was the kind of big move we needed to make to take the next step. LaMelo is really going to help our offense go to another level,” a Wolves front office executive said. “We also had to take some of the playmaking load off Ant (Anthony Edwards). We need him to be fresher at the start of the playoffs. The best way to do that was to add more playmaking and we got one of the best playmakers in the game.”

On the lack of size up front: “That’s the downside of the trade. We had to give up some size. The good news is that Rudy (Gobert) is still getting it done at a very high level. Jaden (McDaniels) can play either forward spot. Ant (Anthony Edwards) plays big and LaMelo is a big guard too,” a Minnesota front office executive said. “But it’s something we’ll continue to work on throughout the offseason and in-season too.”

On signing Trey Lyles: “Trey has a history of being a productive player in the NBA, and he was terrific for Real Madrid last season. There’s a good chance he starts for us and gives us more floor-spacing from that spot,” a Timberwolves assistant coach said.

On Joan Beringer: “Look, it’s Year 2, so we want to see steps forward. But Joan is 19 years old. We have to be conscious of that,” a Timberwolves front office executive said. “But here’s the thing: He wants it. Badly. We’re looking forward to seeing what he can give us this season.”

On Jaylen Clark and Terrence Shannon Jr.: “Big opportunities for both of them with Donte (DiVincenzo) out. They’ve both done well in spurts before, but this year we need real minutes from both of them. We’re confident they’re ready for the challenge,” a Minnesota front office executive said.

Summer League was rough for Isaiah Evans, but he’ll be better when the preseason comes around. Because the trade was delayed, Evans got thrown in with very little prep time. That’s tough for a guy who is a rhythm shooter.

This is great information, Rap. Thanks for posting!

[Lipoli390]

There is a report out there the wolves looking to add Kuminga

Interesting. The only reason I don’t believe it is because we NEVER get advance info on any major moves TC makes. So if we see a rumor about a future Wolves move, that means it won’t happen. .

But just for fun, let’s assume the Wolves are aggressively pursuing Kuminga and that we might end up getting him. It would have to be a sign-and-trade, right? Could it be Josh Green straight up for Kuminga? Atlanta would get a solid young but experienced 3&D wing on a valuable expiring contract. Kuminga would be getting less perhaps than he’d get elsewhere, but he’d be the presumed starter on a championship contender with the chance to jump start his still young but struggling career.