And your starting PF for the 26-27 Minnesota TimberWolves is?

[AussieWolf3]

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

Jaden. Doesn't. Weigh. One hundred and eighty five pounds!

Can we stop with this narrative? If Jaden is too small to play PF than Chet and Wemby aren't centers.

Also Tobais Harris and Julian are nearly the same size. They added him because he was a good free agent and they could afford him. There single biggest issue wasn't size against the Knicks, it was the fact that their offense was set up to run through DeAaron Fox.

I'm not saying there is no risk or no downsides to the current roster setup and the fact that Chris Finch himself expressed doubt about Jaden being a PF speaks volumes but people have completely jumped the shark imo

Not sure where you get your inside information about Jaden's weight, Aussie , but I'm going to go by what I see on the court and his listed weight...it's really all we have to go by when comparing players. Jaden has about as skinny a lower body as any big I've seen in the NBA...he really stands out when you go to a game. Chet also...I think both of them would love to add some bulk if they could, but some body types just can't get bigger. Chet and Victor though have the advantage over Jaden of at least 6 inches of length...a 9 1/2 foot standing reach makes up somewhat for a less than ideal weight!

I agree that size wasn't the biggest issue for the Spurs against the Knicks, but their brain trust clearly thought it was a problem that needed to be fixed as evidenced by their bringing in three bigs in the offseason. I can't get into TC's head, but I hope he is laser focused on bringing in someone that will let Jaden play his natural position.

It's not insider info, it's observations of obvious fact. His listed height and weight haven't changed since the combine 8 years ago.... Yet there's all this reporting that he grew 3 inches?

Point is that I'm not going to obsess oven an inch here or there or even 20 pounds here or there because the information database is so spoiled. There just isn't accurate information about these guys size.

It's obvious Jaden has gotten taller, yet has the same build. That means he's heavier still skinny but heavier. Chet and Wemby obviously have height on Jaden, but that doesn't matter to me because relative to other centers they're very light. Why can they be light centers but Jaden can't be a tall and light power forward?

[rapsuperstar31]

Wouldn't the bigger issue with McDaniels guarding 4s be that he can no longer be the primary point-of-attack defender that Finch has mentioned he wants to continue?

Howls and Growls did a great breakdown video today on the topic. Ayo is an excellent choice against point guards. Green is a better choice against bigger star players. Clark is the best choice defensively, but not on offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jnqK2lFGA&t=913s

[BeenLurkin]

Jaden. Doesn't. Weigh. One hundred and eighty five pounds!

Can we stop with this narrative? If Jaden is too small to play PF than Chet and Wemby aren't centers.

Also Tobais Harris and Julian are nearly the same size. They added him because he was a good free agent and they could afford him. There single biggest issue wasn't size against the Knicks, it was the fact that their offense was set up to run through DeAaron Fox.

I'm not saying there is no risk or no downsides to the current roster setup and the fact that Chris Finch himself expressed doubt about Jaden being a PF speaks volumes but people have completely jumped the shark imo

Not sure where you get your inside information about Jaden's weight, Aussie , but I'm going to go by what I see on the court and his listed weight...it's really all we have to go by when comparing players. Jaden has about as skinny a lower body as any big I've seen in the NBA...he really stands out when you go to a game. Chet also...I think both of them would love to add some bulk if they could, but some body types just can't get bigger. Chet and Victor though have the advantage over Jaden of at least 6 inches of length...a 9 1/2 foot standing reach makes up somewhat for a less than ideal weight!

I agree that size wasn't the biggest issue for the Spurs against the Knicks, but their brain trust clearly thought it was a problem that needed to be fixed as evidenced by their bringing in three bigs in the offseason. I can't get into TC's head, but I hope he is laser focused on bringing in someone that will let Jaden play his natural position.

It's not insider info, it's observations of obvious fact. His listed height and weight haven't changed since the combine 8 years ago.... Yet there's all this reporting that he grew 3 inches?

Point is that I'm not going to obsess oven an inch here or there or even 20 pounds here or there because the information database is so spoiled. There just isn't accurate information about these guys size.

It's obvious Jaden has gotten taller, yet has the same build. That means he's heavier still skinny but heavier. Chet and Wemby obviously have height on Jaden, but that doesn't matter to me because relative to other centers they're very light. Why can they be light centers but Jaden can't be a tall and light power forward?

Isiah evens is listed at 185 and 6’6” so we will get to see this year if those two ever stand next to eachother in camera what reality is. Again, I am 6’3” and 190 and if I I weigh less than jaden it’s gotta be because he has bird bones. There’s plenty of mislabeling in players measurable in all sport. It’s a mental advantage thing maybe? In some cases like fighting sport it’s an actual technical advantage. No idea why they would purposefully never update a players height and weight but sometimes they don’t.

[BeenLurkin]

Is Kyle Anderson 45 lbs heavier than Jaden and an inch shorter?

[Lipoli390]

Yes, That’s the reality. And as we all know, it worked out pretty well for the Spurs. I suppose there is a chance Lyles ends up starting at PF.

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

Playing Jaden as our primary PF is definitely not ideal. That’s why I’d start Lyles at that position and sign another free agent PF to potentially rotate in at that position. I’ll note that Jeremy Sochan was averaging 25 minutes a game two seasons ago when he was only 21 years old and putting up very solid numbers.

If Ball, Ant, Jaden, Rudy and Ayo are as good as we think they are and can be the core of a championship team, then it’s OK to have a Bill Weddington or Luc Longley equivalent as our 5th starter. Trey Lyles can certainly be that guy and so could Sochan if he did nothing more than match his numbers from two seasons ago. Yes, I’d love to add PJ Washington, Jabari Smith, Myles Turner or even Hauser to our roster and maybe we can get one of them in exchange for Green and TSJ. But I think we’re making far too much of this PF issue. We have a solid one on our roster named Trey Lyles and at least a couple decent options in free agency - Sochan and Love. And yes, Jaden CAN play some minutes at PF as could Green or TSJ. If our core, supplemented by the other guys on our roster along with the addition of a Sochan or Love, isn’t good enough to compete for a championship then we have the wrong core.

[FNG]

Yeah and the Spurs went out and drafted two power forwards. Hmmm, I wonder why.

Yeah, I think we are misinterpreting the Spurs situation when we compare their PF situation last year to ours. In fact, I think an analysis of what they did and are doing is another argument supporting the assertion that we are misusing Jaden if we put him at the 4.

Champagnie may not have the "perfect" size for an NBA PF, but he's much better suited than Jaden. He's long like Jaden (8-11 standing reach), and while his weight is slightly less than average for an NBA PF, he outweighs Jaden by over 30 pounds! And despite Julian having close to PF size (unlike Jaden) the Spurs still thought he was too small and went out and got the bulkier Tobias Harris. The Spurs know that you need to be big up front to compete in the NBA, and they worked to correct this in the offseason by drafting two huge bodies and signing Harris. The Spurs got much bigger in the offseason, and the Wolves got smaller. Lyles may be the answer, but I still think TC has something else in mind to get done before January.

Playing Jaden as our primary PF is definitely not ideal. That’s why I’d start Lyles at that position and sign another free agent PF to potentially rotate in at that position. I’ll note that Jeremy Sochan was averaging 25 minutes a game two seasons ago when he was only 21 years old and putting up very solid numbers.

If Ball, Ant, Jaden, Rudy and Ayo are as good as we think they are and can be the core of a championship team, then it’s OK to have a Bill Weddington or Luc Longley equivalent as our 5th starter. Trey Lyles can certainly be that guy and so could Sochan if he did nothing more than match his numbers from two seasons ago. Yes, I’d love to add PJ Washington, Jabari Smith, Myles Turner or even Hauser to our roster and maybe we can get one of them in exchange for Green and TSJ. But I think we’re making far too much of this PF issue. We have a solid one on our roster named Trey Lyles and at least a couple decent options in free agency - Sochan and Love. And yes, Jaden CAN play some minutes at PF as could Green or TSJ. If our core, supplemented by the other guys on our roster along with the addition of a Sochan or Love, isn’t good enough to compete for a championship then we have the wrong core.

Michael Rand echoed your sentiments about Lyles in this morning's Strib, Lip. I think the default position in the media and this board was that Lyles was only a 15 MPG guy at PF, and that's pretty much where I've been. But I've migrated toward starting him and playing him maybe 25 minutes to start the season absent another addition. He's only 30 and coming off a successful season overseas, he has decent size, and his career 3-point average is exactly the same as the average NBA PF. As you say, he'd be our 5th starter, so we don't need that much from him. And having Ayo come off the bench as 6th man will b helpful.

It's still not optimal because he's never played more than 22 MPG in the NBA, but it's our best option with the current roster.

[AussieWolf3]

it's certainly not the best option

Thankfully Jake Paynting provides some much needed sanity to this conversation, and I'd recommend everyone go and give the latest Howls and Growls a watch.

It's not the point of the video, but even just watching the highlights throughout its so obvious how much taller Jaden is than his listed height.

Like Jake, I'm just willing to die on this hill

[Q-is-here]

I still think Josh Green will end up starting at the other forward spot, but I expect Finch to open it up to competition at training camp and try some different things.

It seems pretty clear that Connelly is done dealing at this point other than signing one more end of bench insurance big.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I still think Josh Green will end up starting at the other forward spot, but I expect Finch to open it up to competition at training camp and try some different things.

It seems pretty clear that Connelly is done dealing at this point other than signing one more end of bench insurance big.

Why do you think it will be Green?

The 5th starter will almost certainly be one of the following guys: Green, TJ, Clark, Ayo, Lyles, Beringer. It's interesting to think about the logic behind each guy.

I highly doubt it will be Beringer because he doesn't space the floor and we need him for every non-Rudy minute at this point.

Lyles feels like the most obvious fit in terms of size, skill, and historical position. I think Finch is ultimately kind of a traditionalist, so Lyles would be my bet as a starter and I think that makes sense. He probably won't get more than 20 minutes a night, but starting him preserves a little more flexibility about who Jaden starts defending, which is important.

As for the rest, it's interesting because Green, TJ, and Clark are all about the same size. Ayo is a little smaller but he's got those long arms.

Of them, I think TJ still comes off the bench. He's slightly bigger than all those other guys, but he's just too promising in that Ant-like role offensively, so we should prioritize getting him on the floor whenever Ant and/or Melo are off the floor. He might get more minutes than Lyles, but I think he's best suited as our offensive engine coming off the bench.

I LOVE Clark, but he has to be able to hit from 3 if he's going to start and get decent minutes. I would be so much more comfortable going smaller if he was hitting his 3s and starting. He would just fit perfectly in the starting lineup. He'd automatically be the POA defender, which would take that responsibility from Jaden and free him up to defend elsewhere, which he'd have to do as the default PF. He's be great at sparking turnovers leading to transition. And offensively, he wouldn't need touches to be effective (as long as his 3 is falling). The more I think about him, the more I think his 3 point shot is such a huge swing factor (on par with Melo's lower-body health).

Ayo is probably the best overall player out of these options, and although he's a little smaller, his longer arms would help him defend in these smaller lineups. I think you can probably plug him into just about any lineup and play him 1-3. I think he'll probably end up with the 5th most minutes on the team, and I bet his play encourages Finch to close a lot of games with him. Similar to TJ, I like the idea of him driving offense off the bench, but I think he has more flexibility to fill in as a starter than TJ, even though he's not as strong.

Green, I can see him as a starter because, like Clark, he's a role player who doesn't really need the ball to be effective. He'd stretch the floor, which we need in that starting unit (I'm still a little worried about Jaden't outside shot). Green is a little smaller than TJ, but from what little I've seen he uses his strength better defensively than TJ. So yeah, I'd say Green and Lyles are similarly good fits for the starting lineup in terms of their offensive role. Again, I'm not sure I'd bank on more than 20 mintues, and I could easily see him starting but not closing games, but I bet that Finch is going to take a close look at Green and Lyles for a potential 5th starter. And whichever one DOESN'T play that role, might not get a lot of playing time.


The related question here is: who ISN'T going to get as many minutes next year?

We can assume Melo's getting 30-32 at the 1, Rudy and Beringer will get every minute at the 5, and Ant is getting 32-34 minutes and Jaden probably another 34.

That leaves 90-94 total minutes for: Ayo, TJ, Clark, Lyles, Green, and Bones.

Based on talent alone, you'd want to give a big chunk of that to Ayo. 26-28 minutes?

Now you're down to 62-68 minutes left for TJ, Clark, Lyles, Green, and Bones, and you can see reasons to give all of those guys minutes, but somebody in there is going to end up not playing much at all. This is more depressing than guessing who the 5th starter will be, but it feels like another way to approach the rotation question.

[Lipoli390]

I still think Josh Green will end up starting at the other forward spot, but I expect Finch to open it up to competition at training camp and try some different things.

It seems pretty clear that Connelly is done dealing at this point other than signing one more end of bench insurance big.

Why do you think it will be Green?

The 5th starter will almost certainly be one of the following guys: Green, TJ, Clark, Ayo, Lyles, Beringer. It's interesting to think about the logic behind each guy.

I highly doubt it will be Beringer because he doesn't space the floor and we need him for every non-Rudy minute at this point.

Lyles feels like the most obvious fit in terms of size, skill, and historical position. I think Finch is ultimately kind of a traditionalist, so Lyles would be my bet as a starter and I think that makes sense. He probably won't get more than 20 minutes a night, but starting him preserves a little more flexibility about who Jaden starts defending, which is important.

As for the rest, it's interesting because Green, TJ, and Clark are all about the same size. Ayo is a little smaller but he's got those long arms.

Of them, I think TJ still comes off the bench. He's slightly bigger than all those other guys, but he's just too promising in that Ant-like role offensively, so we should prioritize getting him on the floor whenever Ant and/or Melo are off the floor. He might get more minutes than Lyles, but I think he's best suited as our offensive engine coming off the bench.

I LOVE Clark, but he has to be able to hit from 3 if he's going to start and get decent minutes. I would be so much more comfortable going smaller if he was hitting his 3s and starting. He would just fit perfectly in the starting lineup. He'd automatically be the POA defender, which would take that responsibility from Jaden and free him up to defend elsewhere, which he'd have to do as the default PF. He's be great at sparking turnovers leading to transition. And offensively, he wouldn't need touches to be effective (as long as his 3 is falling). The more I think about him, the more I think his 3 point shot is such a huge swing factor (on par with Melo's lower-body health).

Ayo is probably the best overall player out of these options, and although he's a little smaller, his longer arms would help him defend in these smaller lineups. I think you can probably plug him into just about any lineup and play him 1-3. I think he'll probably end up with the 5th most minutes on the team, and I bet his play encourages Finch to close a lot of games with him. Similar to TJ, I like the idea of him driving offense off the bench, but I think he has more flexibility to fill in as a starter than TJ, even though he's not as strong.

Green, I can see him as a starter because, like Clark, he's a role player who doesn't really need the ball to be effective. He'd stretch the floor, which we need in that starting unit (I'm still a little worried about Jaden't outside shot). Green is a little smaller than TJ, but from what little I've seen he uses his strength better defensively than TJ. So yeah, I'd say Green and Lyles are similarly good fits for the starting lineup in terms of their offensive role. Again, I'm not sure I'd bank on more than 20 mintues, and I could easily see him starting but not closing games, but I bet that Finch is going to take a close look at Green and Lyles for a potential 5th starter. And whichever one DOESN'T play that role, might not get a lot of playing time.


The related question here is: who ISN'T going to get as many minutes next year?

We can assume Melo's getting 30-32 at the 1, Rudy and Beringer will get every minute at the 5, and Ant is getting 32-34 minutes and Jaden probably another 34.

That leaves 90-94 total minutes for: Ayo, TJ, Clark, Lyles, Green, and Bones.

Based on talent alone, you'd want to give a big chunk of that to Ayo. 26-28 minutes?

Now you're down to 62-68 minutes left for TJ, Clark, Lyles, Green, and Bones, and you can see reasons to give all of those guys minutes, but somebody in there is going to end up not playing much at all. This is more depressing than guessing who the 5th starter will be, but it feels like another way to approach the rotation question.

Nice breakdown, Drew. My sense is that Lyles will get 20-25 of those 62-68 minutes with the remaining minutes going to two of the following three: TJ, Clark and Green. So I see TJ, Clark and Green battling for those last 40-45 minutes.