Trade for PJ Washington - Poll

[AussieWolf3]

I recommend watching this PJ Washington highlight video. He’s a very good player. Excellent speed and mobility. High skill level with the ball. Very good passer. Really long arms. Terrific body control. Physically strong and able to bully guys inside and finish in traffic. He provides a lot of what Julius provided inside, but without stalling the ball, slowing the pace or clogging the lane the way Julius did. Also, unlike Julius, PJ can provide some rim protection. He’s sort of a blend of Randle and Naz but not as powerful as Julius or as good beyond the arc as Naz.

https://youtu.be/AyW0uuNzVAU?si=LAfEPWd0AQNZNJU-

I agree with everything you say about PJ. Aussie and I have gone back and forth about Jaden's true size, but nobody will ever call PJ "Slim"...he had an NBA PF body even back at Kentucky! I read your comment about discounting PJ's down season last year, and I largely agree as long as we can determine he is totally healthy...sometimes a nagging injury can lead to a down year. I'm beginning to move closer to answering "yes" to Monster's question about whether he is the missing piece in terms of making us a contender...he just might be. I don't think we're the only team that may be targeting PJ both because they like him and they notice Dallas is flush with bigs. I see the Lakers appear to be quite interested.

I also saw your comment that you would give up Donte/Green in trade far easier than Ayo and am not on the same page. Perhaps you are disregarding the Ayo Mystery as just BS analytics, but I find it difficult to ignore. There's a reason the Bulls were willing to trade him for two non-rotation players. I like Ayo's game so much (and have since his Illinois days), I struggled to understand why he has consistently been the mirror opposite of Donte throughout his career in on/off stats when their raw stats are quite similar. I couldn't determine what the issue was when I watched his early games with us on TV, but I did in the three games I attended last spring in person: Donte is consistently both effective and disruptive on defense, while Ayo often seems to be in the wrong place on defense. It's not an effort issue like with Julius or Ant...he works hard out there...it's more confusion about where he is supposed to be in a team concept. After noticing this in person, I watched it closely in the playoffs where he really struggled on defense...it wasn't much of a surprise to me that opponents scored a disastrous 16.2 more points per 100 when he was on the court. Ayo is still young and may have been adjusting to new teammates on defense (although his defensive analytics were poor at Chicago too), so he could make a positive leap on defense like Donte has, but I'd rather take the more reliable defender now.

Of course there is the Achilles issue...when will Donte return, and will he be effective? The most recent recovery example is Tatum...he came back on March 6 and actually had his surgery 3 weeks later than Donte. Reports are that Donte's recovery has been good, and a Tatum schedule would have him back in mid February. Durant had a similar recovery time and didn't seem to lose any explosiveness when he returned. But every injury is different, so I agree there are no guarantees that Donte will come back as quickly as Tatum and Durant or will be the same player. That also is why he might not be as attractive a trade asset as Ayo.

Interesting observation about Ayo's defense FNG I really appreciate it

And yes, I'll concede that PJ is certainly a sturdy boy

[Monster]

I don't know exactly where to put this but on Donte:

It feels like if they were ever gonna trade Donte they would have done it already and if they are gonna move him it's not gonna be for PJ Washington.

All the reporting has been that they want to keep Donte. If he is the guy he was last season yeah it's a no brainer. If he is the guy the previous season...much less so. Of course with adding Ball and even Ayo, when Donte returns he will be off the ball way more which leans into his biggest strength shooting the 3.

It seems to me that if the Wolves have been so inclined to keep Donte they have a plan to resign him and maybe even have some sort of number in mind. He would be eligible for an extension in the same way Ayo was before FA hit.

Achilles injuries are still a big injury but man these guys are returning more quickly and effectively. It definitely feels like a bit of a gamble keeping him unless teams see him currently as a negative asset which quite frankly would be a surprise. There have been guys in a similar situation with similar value that when dealt teams seem to have some positive value for that player but maybe that was a while ago and things have changed since then.

[FNG]

I don't know exactly where to put this but on Donte:

It feels like if they were ever gonna trade Donte they would have done it already and if they are gonna move him it's not gonna be for PJ Washington.

All the reporting has been that they want to keep Donte. If he is the guy he was last season yeah it's a no brainer. If he is the guy the previous season...much less so. Of course with adding Ball and even Ayo, when Donte returns he will be off the ball way more which leans into his biggest strength shooting the 3.

It seems to me that if the Wolves have been so inclined to keep Donte they have a plan to resign him and maybe even have some sort of number in mind. He would be eligible for an extension in the same way Ayo was before FA hit.

Achilles injuries are still a big injury but man these guys are returning more quickly and effectively. It definitely feels like a bit of a gamble keeping him unless teams see him currently as a negative asset which quite frankly would be a surprise. There have been guys in a similar situation with similar value that when dealt teams seem to have some positive value for that player but maybe that was a while ago and things have changed since then.

Yeah, I don’t know that any team would trade for Donte without putting him through some kind of a workout, and he’s months away from being able to do that.

[60WinTim]

Me personally, I’ll go after Aldama instead of PJ…

Although, one advantage of trading for PJ is the additional space under the 2nd apron gained, allowing the signing of vet players to fill out the roster.

And on Donte and Green, we don’t control their future after the coming season.

[Lipoli390]

Me personally, I’ll go after Aldama instead of PJ…

Although, one advantage of trading for PJ is the additional space under the 2nd apron gained, allowing the signing of vet players to fill out the roster.

And on Donte and Green, we don’t control their future after the coming season.

I’ll just be clear for the record. First, I don’t think the Wolves will trade Donte. Second, I don’t think Donte has much trade value right now because (1) he has a very serious injury with an uncertain prognosis in spite of recent surgical success stories, won’t be available all season; and (2) he has an expiring contract and won’t be available all season and I don’t think there are any teams willing to give up value for a guy who may never ever play a game for them. The selling point for Dallas on Donte + Green for PJ is that the deal would give Dallas two expiring contracts and tremendous cap relief from PJ’s fairly expensive 4-year deal. But I still don’t think Dallas would do that deal and neither would TC. So it’s probably and academic question.

I’d love to get Aldama but I can’t think of a realistic trade to get him.

[Monster]

Me personally, I’ll go after Aldama instead of PJ…

Although, one advantage of trading for PJ is the additional space under the 2nd apron gained, allowing the signing of vet players to fill out the roster.

And on Donte and Green, we don’t control their future after the coming season.

Well Dallas thought Aldama was better also since they gave up a first rounder and other assets to get him from Memphis. I don't know what Dallas is gonna do with all those frontcourt guys although it's not as crowded as the Hornets.

We don't control what either Donte or Green do but we might also be the pathway for them to get paid more since would have their bird rights. Maybe there is a sign and trade deal for either of them. I think it's pretty clear the Wolves right now would like to keep Donte. There are other players including Green that could step up and change that plan.

[Q-is-here]

Feels like PJ is what he is at this point and that's an OK-ish starting NBA player, and yeah, he's a "pure" power forward. But positional need almost NEVER trumps sheer talent when it comes to the 2-4 positions IMO. That probably applies a bit less to PG and Center, which positionally carry outsized importance on offense and defense respectively.

Given that, I just don't feel like taking on his contract as it stands today is worth it.

[Lipoli390]

I recommend watching this PJ Washington highlight video. He’s a very good player. Excellent speed and mobility. High skill level with the ball. Very good passer. Really long arms. Terrific body control. Physically strong and able to bully guys inside and finish in traffic. He provides a lot of what Julius provided inside, but without stalling the ball, slowing the pace or clogging the lane the way Julius did. Also, unlike Julius, PJ can provide some rim protection. He’s sort of a blend of Randle and Naz but not as powerful as Julius or as good beyond the arc as Naz.

https://youtu.be/AyW0uuNzVAU?si=LAfEPWd0AQNZNJU-

I agree with everything you say about PJ. Aussie and I have gone back and forth about Jaden's true size, but nobody will ever call PJ "Slim"...he had an NBA PF body even back at Kentucky! I read your comment about discounting PJ's down season last year, and I largely agree as long as we can determine he is totally healthy...sometimes a nagging injury can lead to a down year. I'm beginning to move closer to answering "yes" to Monster's question about whether he is the missing piece in terms of making us a contender...he just might be. I don't think we're the only team that may be targeting PJ both because they like him and they notice Dallas is flush with bigs. I see the Lakers appear to be quite interested.

I also saw your comment that you would give up Donte/Green in trade far easier than Ayo and am not on the same page. Perhaps you are disregarding the Ayo Mystery as just BS analytics, but I find it difficult to ignore. There's a reason the Bulls were willing to trade him for two non-rotation players. I like Ayo's game so much (and have since his Illinois days), I struggled to understand why he has consistently been the mirror opposite of Donte throughout his career in on/off stats when their raw stats are quite similar. I couldn't determine what the issue was when I watched his early games with us on TV, but I did in the three games I attended last spring in person: Donte is consistently both effective and disruptive on defense, while Ayo often seems to be in the wrong place on defense. It's not an effort issue like with Julius or Ant...he works hard out there...it's more confusion about where he is supposed to be in a team concept. After noticing this in person, I watched it closely in the playoffs where he really struggled on defense...it wasn't much of a surprise to me that opponents scored a disastrous 16.2 more points per 100 when he was on the court. Ayo is still young and may have been adjusting to new teammates on defense (although his defensive analytics were poor at Chicago too), so he could make a positive leap on defense like Donte has, but I'd rather take the more reliable defender now.

Of course there is the Achilles issue...when will Donte return, and will he be effective? The most recent recovery example is Tatum...he came back on March 6 and actually had his surgery 3 weeks later than Donte. Reports are that Donte's recovery has been good, and a Tatum schedule would have him back in mid February. Durant had a similar recovery time and didn't seem to lose any explosiveness when he returned. But every injury is different, so I agree there are no guarantees that Donte will come back as quickly as Tatum and Durant or will be the same player. That also is why he might not be as attractive a trade asset as Ayo.

Ayo would be a much more attractive/valuable trade asset than Donte for the same reasons we should keep Ayo over Donte if we have a choice to trade one or the other for a player we want. In reality, I don’t think we’re going to get a starting PF as good or better than PJ in exchange for Donte and Green and I doubt we could even get PJ although I think getting PJ for those two is somewhat realistic. The way this team is constructed, especially with Donte likely out the whole season, I wouldn’t even consider trading Ayo for a PF. And I’m not sure I’d consider it even if Donte were healthy. We have our three elite players in Ball, Ant and Jaden. We have our defensive anchor in Rudy at Center. And we have a critical 6th man in Ayo who allows us to maintain a high level of play at the guard positions, which are obviously the core positions around which this team is built. We need ball-handlers who can both shoot and facilitate. That was why TC traded for Ayo in the first place and gave him his current contract. It’s why TC traded for LaMello.

Donte is definitely a better defender than Ayo, but the gap narrowed when comparing the two as teammates with the Wolves last season. And Ayo’s defensive numbers were actually better than Donte’s in the playoffs last season. With his long arms, toughness, high IQ and intensity, it’s highly likely that Ayo’s defensive numbers will improves - especially playing with defenders like Rudy, Jaden and a motivated Ant. Offensively, Ayo and Donte are both very good but also different. Overall, Ayo’s offensive stats last season were significantly better than Donte’s.

It’s too easy to get lost in the statistical weeds. I think this team needs Ayo and is better with both than with one or the other assuming Donte comes back 100% - maybe by the playoffs but more likely next season. Since I don’t think we’re getting value for Donte in a trade because of his injury, it’s probably just an academic debate. However, if there’s a chance we can get a PF of PJ’s caliber for Green and Donte, I think we should pull the trigger. If we’re all to compete for a championship next season, we can’t afford to carry a player who can’t play if that player could be swapped for a player who can’t help us significantly at a position of need.

[Monster]

I recommend watching this PJ Washington highlight video. He’s a very good player. Excellent speed and mobility. High skill level with the ball. Very good passer. Really long arms. Terrific body control. Physically strong and able to bully guys inside and finish in traffic. He provides a lot of what Julius provided inside, but without stalling the ball, slowing the pace or clogging the lane the way Julius did. Also, unlike Julius, PJ can provide some rim protection. He’s sort of a blend of Randle and Naz but not as powerful as Julius or as good beyond the arc as Naz.

https://youtu.be/AyW0uuNzVAU?si=LAfEPWd0AQNZNJU-

I agree with everything you say about PJ. Aussie and I have gone back and forth about Jaden's true size, but nobody will ever call PJ "Slim"...he had an NBA PF body even back at Kentucky! I read your comment about discounting PJ's down season last year, and I largely agree as long as we can determine he is totally healthy...sometimes a nagging injury can lead to a down year. I'm beginning to move closer to answering "yes" to Monster's question about whether he is the missing piece in terms of making us a contender...he just might be. I don't think we're the only team that may be targeting PJ both because they like him and they notice Dallas is flush with bigs. I see the Lakers appear to be quite interested.

I also saw your comment that you would give up Donte/Green in trade far easier than Ayo and am not on the same page. Perhaps you are disregarding the Ayo Mystery as just BS analytics, but I find it difficult to ignore. There's a reason the Bulls were willing to trade him for two non-rotation players. I like Ayo's game so much (and have since his Illinois days), I struggled to understand why he has consistently been the mirror opposite of Donte throughout his career in on/off stats when their raw stats are quite similar. I couldn't determine what the issue was when I watched his early games with us on TV, but I did in the three games I attended last spring in person: Donte is consistently both effective and disruptive on defense, while Ayo often seems to be in the wrong place on defense. It's not an effort issue like with Julius or Ant...he works hard out there...it's more confusion about where he is supposed to be in a team concept. After noticing this in person, I watched it closely in the playoffs where he really struggled on defense...it wasn't much of a surprise to me that opponents scored a disastrous 16.2 more points per 100 when he was on the court. Ayo is still young and may have been adjusting to new teammates on defense (although his defensive analytics were poor at Chicago too), so he could make a positive leap on defense like Donte has, but I'd rather take the more reliable defender now.

Of course there is the Achilles issue...when will Donte return, and will he be effective? The most recent recovery example is Tatum...he came back on March 6 and actually had his surgery 3 weeks later than Donte. Reports are that Donte's recovery has been good, and a Tatum schedule would have him back in mid February. Durant had a similar recovery time and didn't seem to lose any explosiveness when he returned. But every injury is different, so I agree there are no guarantees that Donte will come back as quickly as Tatum and Durant or will be the same player. That also is why he might not be as attractive a trade asset as Ayo.

Ayo would be a much more attractive/valuable trade asset than Donte for the same reasons we should keep Ayo over Donte if we have a choice to trade one or the other for a player we want. In reality, I don’t think we’re going to get a starting PF as good or better than PJ in exchange for Donte and Green and I doubt we could even get PJ although I think getting PJ for those two is somewhat realistic. The way this team is constructed, especially with Donte likely out the whole season, I wouldn’t even consider trading Ayo for a PF. And I’m not sure I’d consider it even if Donte were healthy. We have our three elite players in Ball, Ant and Jaden. We have our defensive anchor in Rudy at Center. And we have a critical 6th man in Ayo who allows us to maintain a high level of play at the guard positions, which are obviously the core positions around which this team is built. We need ball-handlers who can both shoot and facilitate. That was why TC traded for Ayo in the first place and gave him his current contract. It’s why TC traded for LaMello.

Donte is definitely a better defender than Ayo, but the gap narrowed when comparing the two as teammates with the Wolves last season. And Ayo’s defensive numbers were actually better than Donte’s in the playoffs last season. With his long arms, toughness, high IQ and intensity, it’s highly likely that Ayo’s defensive numbers will improves - especially playing with defenders like Rudy, Jaden and a motivated Ant. Offensively, Ayo and Donte are both very good but also different. Overall, Ayo’s offensive stats last season were significantly better than Donte’s.

It’s too easy to get lost in the statistical weeds. I think this team needs Ayo and is better with both than with one or the other assuming Donte comes back 100% - maybe by the playoffs but more likely next season. Since I don’t think we’re getting value for Donte in a trade because of his injury, it’s probably just an academic debate. However, if there’s a chance we can get a PF of PJ’s caliber for Green and Donte, I think we should pull the trigger. If we’re all to compete for a championship next season, we can’t afford to carry a player who can’t play if that player could be swapped for a player who can’t help us significantly at a position of need.

The thing is Lip it's not just about this season. In 12 months how will you feel about paying PJ Washington over 21 million? What if having him on the roster kept from trading or signing a different better player? Personally I think Dallas would at this point jump at the chance to add Green and get out from Washington's long term deal with all the players they have added this off-season.

Aldama
Drafted Morez Johnson
Risacher

Brought back Cisse matching the offer sheet

They just sighed Naji Marshall to a 3 year 52 million extension.

They still have both Lively and Gafford on the roster and even Caleb Martin.

Dallas is trying to win now so they probably don't need to unload Washington but it seems pretty clear they are looking for other options than keeping him around long term. It seems like they could use some more guard depth.

[Q-is-here]

I agree with everything you say about PJ. Aussie and I have gone back and forth about Jaden's true size, but nobody will ever call PJ "Slim"...he had an NBA PF body even back at Kentucky! I read your comment about discounting PJ's down season last year, and I largely agree as long as we can determine he is totally healthy...sometimes a nagging injury can lead to a down year. I'm beginning to move closer to answering "yes" to Monster's question about whether he is the missing piece in terms of making us a contender...he just might be. I don't think we're the only team that may be targeting PJ both because they like him and they notice Dallas is flush with bigs. I see the Lakers appear to be quite interested.

I also saw your comment that you would give up Donte/Green in trade far easier than Ayo and am not on the same page. Perhaps you are disregarding the Ayo Mystery as just BS analytics, but I find it difficult to ignore. There's a reason the Bulls were willing to trade him for two non-rotation players. I like Ayo's game so much (and have since his Illinois days), I struggled to understand why he has consistently been the mirror opposite of Donte throughout his career in on/off stats when their raw stats are quite similar. I couldn't determine what the issue was when I watched his early games with us on TV, but I did in the three games I attended last spring in person: Donte is consistently both effective and disruptive on defense, while Ayo often seems to be in the wrong place on defense. It's not an effort issue like with Julius or Ant...he works hard out there...it's more confusion about where he is supposed to be in a team concept. After noticing this in person, I watched it closely in the playoffs where he really struggled on defense...it wasn't much of a surprise to me that opponents scored a disastrous 16.2 more points per 100 when he was on the court. Ayo is still young and may have been adjusting to new teammates on defense (although his defensive analytics were poor at Chicago too), so he could make a positive leap on defense like Donte has, but I'd rather take the more reliable defender now.

Of course there is the Achilles issue...when will Donte return, and will he be effective? The most recent recovery example is Tatum...he came back on March 6 and actually had his surgery 3 weeks later than Donte. Reports are that Donte's recovery has been good, and a Tatum schedule would have him back in mid February. Durant had a similar recovery time and didn't seem to lose any explosiveness when he returned. But every injury is different, so I agree there are no guarantees that Donte will come back as quickly as Tatum and Durant or will be the same player. That also is why he might not be as attractive a trade asset as Ayo.

Ayo would be a much more attractive/valuable trade asset than Donte for the same reasons we should keep Ayo over Donte if we have a choice to trade one or the other for a player we want. In reality, I don’t think we’re going to get a starting PF as good or better than PJ in exchange for Donte and Green and I doubt we could even get PJ although I think getting PJ for those two is somewhat realistic. The way this team is constructed, especially with Donte likely out the whole season, I wouldn’t even consider trading Ayo for a PF. And I’m not sure I’d consider it even if Donte were healthy. We have our three elite players in Ball, Ant and Jaden. We have our defensive anchor in Rudy at Center. And we have a critical 6th man in Ayo who allows us to maintain a high level of play at the guard positions, which are obviously the core positions around which this team is built. We need ball-handlers who can both shoot and facilitate. That was why TC traded for Ayo in the first place and gave him his current contract. It’s why TC traded for LaMello.

Donte is definitely a better defender than Ayo, but the gap narrowed when comparing the two as teammates with the Wolves last season. And Ayo’s defensive numbers were actually better than Donte’s in the playoffs last season. With his long arms, toughness, high IQ and intensity, it’s highly likely that Ayo’s defensive numbers will improves - especially playing with defenders like Rudy, Jaden and a motivated Ant. Offensively, Ayo and Donte are both very good but also different. Overall, Ayo’s offensive stats last season were significantly better than Donte’s.

It’s too easy to get lost in the statistical weeds. I think this team needs Ayo and is better with both than with one or the other assuming Donte comes back 100% - maybe by the playoffs but more likely next season. Since I don’t think we’re getting value for Donte in a trade because of his injury, it’s probably just an academic debate. However, if there’s a chance we can get a PF of PJ’s caliber for Green and Donte, I think we should pull the trigger. If we’re all to compete for a championship next season, we can’t afford to carry a player who can’t play if that player could be swapped for a player who can’t help us significantly at a position of need.

In 12 months how will you feel about paying PJ Washington over 21 million? What if having him on the roster kept from trading or signing a different better player?

Great questions Monster. When people say we are "one player away" from contending, is PJ Washington really the guy that could tip us into contention??? I'd rather use a patchwork of guys like Green, Jaden, and Lyles than get locked into PJ for $80M over the next few years.

May be some really good forward options will come up that we haven't even thought of or as the season progresses and we get to the trade deadline. Or may be it's much ado about nothing because our current personnel is able to do just fine. Time will tell, but I don't want a panic move by Connelly. PJ and his contract feels a little panic-y.