Vikings vs Chargers game thread

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I gotta admit that game surprised me. The oddsmakers were calling for a close game, and predictions in this thread were close too. On the way to the game I was listening to KFAN. and Pete Bercich was saying not to listen to the experts...that this game was going to be a physical mismatch. He said the Chargers were a talented but soft team, and the Vikings looked to be one of the most physical teams of the year. My first thought was "What is Bercich smoking?". Yes, we physically beat up the Lions last week, but we were clearly outmatched in our opener against the Niners. Well, Bercich nailed this prediction. The Vikings won this one in the trenches, completely manhandling the Chargers on both sides of the ball. The box score says the Chargers gained more yards, but that's not what it looked like. My friends and I were wincing by the middle of the third quarter every time the Vikings hit somebody...it was painful to watch at times. It only makes sense that the biggest hit a Viking took all day was when Xavier Rhodes got hit by his own teammate Sendejo! Philip Rivers is a terrific QB, but with the combination of his beaten-up OL and the Vikings aggressive defense, he just didn't have enough time to pick the secondary apart.

I was a little worried when Rhodes got hurt and the rookie Waynes had to start the second half at CB. But the defensive line put so much pressure on Rivers that the kid held up just fine at corner. Let's hope Rhodes concussion allows him to come back soon, but we may be okay with the rookie at CB.

A couple guys were exceptional today. Everson Griffin looked more like the all pro from last year, and Matt Kalil dominated his guy all day. Eric Kendricks and Anthony Barr are a dynamic LB duo when we are in the nickel (which seems to be most of the time), and Harrison Smith was all over the field as usual. This defense has looked really good the last couple games. And while Peterson looks like he may have lost a step in speed, he is as difficult to tackle as ever...almost had 3 TDs today.

Now we face a Denver team next week that could still be undefeated. If the Vikings can win that one, we may have to start talking playoffs!

[Monster]

The Chargers were undermanned from the start going with that 3rd string TE who made a terrific catch. It only got worse with the injuries on the online which literally was held together with tape. Props to Rivers for making as much of a game as it was.

This team doesn't have that other safety to pair with Smith but to me this team has had more at the Safety position next to Smith than they had even before they drafted Smith. Sendejo and Blanton are slight upgrades over Sanford who was decent actually. Zimmer says it's extremely difficult to find Safties that play the run and the pass and that's what makes Smith really valuable. Exum could end up being that guy and Ant Harris is a UFA that may end up as a possible option there too. If this team ever gets an above average safety to pair with Smith. Damn

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I gotta admit that game surprised me. The oddsmakers were calling for a close game, and predictions in this thread were close too. On the way to the game I was listening to KFAN. and Pete Bercich was saying not to listen to the experts...that this game was going to be a physical mismatch. He said the Chargers were a talented but soft team, and the Vikings looked to be one of the most physical teams of the year. My first thought was "What is Bercich smoking?". Yes, we physically beat up the Lions last week, but we were clearly outmatched in our opener against the Niners. Well, Bercich nailed this prediction. The Vikings won this one in the trenches, completely manhandling the Chargers on both sides of the ball. The box score says the Chargers gained more yards, but that's not what it looked like. My friends and I were wincing by the middle of the third quarter every time the Vikings hit somebody...it was painful to watch at times. It only makes sense that the biggest hit a Viking took all day was when Xavier Rhodes got hit by his own teammate Sendejo! Philip Rivers is a terrific QB, but with the combination of his beaten-up OL and the Vikings aggressive defense, he just didn't have enough time to pick the secondary apart.

I was a little worried when Rhodes got hurt and the rookie Waynes had to start the second half at CB. But the defensive line put so much pressure on Rivers that the kid held up just fine at corner. Let's hope Rhodes concussion allows him to come back soon, but we may be okay with the rookie at CB.

A couple guys were exceptional today. Everson Griffin looked more like the all pro from last year, and Matt Kalil dominated his guy all day. Eric Kendricks and Anthony Barr are a dynamic LB duo when we are in the nickel (which seems to be most of the time), and Harrison Smith was all over the field as usual. This defense has looked really good the last couple games. And while Peterson looks like he may have lost a step in speed, he is as difficult to tackle as ever...almost had 3 TDs today.

Now we face a Denver team next week that could still be undefeated. If the Vikings can win that one, we may have to start talking playoffs!

Denver is gonna be a big game. They have one of the best defenses in the NFL and of course Peyton running the offense. If we can play them close or even pull out a win that would be a really good sign for us for the rest of this year. The good news is their O-Line is pretty banged up also so we might make it 3 weeks dominating the trenches. The biggest matchup to me is Matt v Ware and Clemmings v Miller. Matt has held up this year, but this is going to be Clemmings and his toughest matchup to date.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't follow the Vikings extremely close, but Bridgewater seems underwhelming to me. The fact they still need to give the ball to AP 25+ per game to run their offense is troubling. I mean, it's worked for the past couple of games, but eventually Teddy is going to need to make multiple big plays in a game. Can he make the big play? I'm not so sure.

[Monster]

I don't follow the Vikings extremely close, but Bridgewater seems underwhelming to me. The fact they still need to give the ball to AP 25+ per game to run their offense is troubling. I mean, it's worked for the past couple of games, but eventually Teddy is going to need to make multiple big plays in a game. Can he make the big play? I'm not so sure.

Teddy hasn't really looked as good as I think a lot of people were expecting fans and media people alike why? I think there are a few nuances to consider. I don't want to make it sound like I am letting Teddy off the hook because he needs to play better but here are some thoughts.

That first game something was off for the whole team that was obvious. It seems that since then they have gone back to using formations to cater to what AP is used to running out of and its been successful. That could be throwing Teddy off a bit. This could be as simple as 2 players that at this time aren't as effective running plays out of certain formations. I suspect both players will end up being more comfortable as time goes on.

I also think last year Teddy just got to go out there and do his thing. Teams didn't have all the tape on him and now they are ready for him and with all that to consider I don't know if he is just doing his thing. He may be playing it a little safer and then when he does take a shot like he did earlier in this game on that INT it wasn't a great throw.

Here is the thing that's a very high positive about Teddy so far this season. His pocket presence and ability to avoid the rush and extend have been very impressive. It's a welcome sight after watching Pomder for a few years who would run into sacks and sometimes seemingly have no clue what was happening around him. Poor pocket presence was the biggest failing of Ponder and I believe it was Souhan that pointed it out in a column in Inthink Ponder's second year and so I watched for it and he was dead on. I think the big plays will come with Teddy but it will take some time. The Denver game will be quite the test for him.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good call, monster, on Teddy's "pocket presence". I know it's an intangible that's difficult to define, but it's a lot like pornography...you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. Teddy's got it. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head that allows him to know when the protection behind him is breaking down. It's really extraordinary for a 2nd year QB, and something that we can expect will even get better.

I think the Vikings have a clear identity and formula for winning, and Teddy is not often going to have gaudy stats if they are implementing it properly. They have a very active, athletic defense that is most disruptive when they are rested, and the key to their being rested is offensive ball control. If Teddy can continue to complete over 70% of his passes and not turn the ball over, and if they continue to put the ball in AP's stomach 25 times a game, they should be able to control the ball for a significant portion of the game and implement their game strategy. Teddy is going to have days like today with 121 yards passing and a 50.9 QB rating, but I don't think Zimmer or Turner will have any problem with it at all. I didn't see the first series today (it took as 30 minutes to get through security at The Bank...ridiculous!) and that must be when he threw his only interception, but he wasn't even close to turning the ball over the rest of the game...and he led them to 24 offensive points. If that is what a 50.9 QB rating looks like, I'll take that every Sunday. It's not that he can't throw the long ball....in the first quarter on 3rd and long deep in their own territory, he threw a 40-yard tight spiral that was likely a reception if the defender hadn't interfered. But those will be rare. I think the coaches want ball control, lots of AP and limited turnovers. With the defense that they have, I think that could lead to 10 wins easily.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I think our receivers were a little overhyped as well making Teddy's life more difficult. I think a guy like Charles Johnson is really a 4th wideout who can fill in decently when one of the top 2 outside receivers is out with an injury. I just haven't seen enough consistency from him to think he is a legit top 2 wideout on a good passing team. Jarius Wright is nothing special in the slot. He's at his best when the outside WR's clear out the back end so he can run his crossing routes underneath which doesn't work if we barely push the ball down the field. Wallace is a good deep threat and YAC guy on short passes where he has room to run, but he's not a number 1 possession guy like Calvin, Julio, etc. On top of the receiving corp having just ok talent, we run a lot of 3 TE, 1 WR heavy sets with play action which to me is just dumb. We need to be able to run the ball with 3 WR's and 1 TE or at least 2 WR's and 2 TE's. Our TE talent isn't good enough to run 3 of them out there at the same time with the expectation that they are good receiving options. Heavy sets just don't do enough damage in play action so defenses can keep the box stacked and don't pay much of a price for it.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good call, monster, on Teddy's "pocket presence". I know it's an intangible that's difficult to define, but it's a lot like pornography...you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. Teddy's got it. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head that allows him to know when the protection behind him is breaking down. It's really extraordinary for a 2nd year QB, and something that we can expect will even get better.

I think the Vikings have a clear identity and formula for winning, and Teddy is not often going to have gaudy stats if they are implementing it properly. They have a very active, athletic defense that is most disruptive when they are rested, and the key to their being rested is offensive ball control. If Teddy can continue to complete over 70% of his passes and not turn the ball over, and if they continue to put the ball in AP's stomach 25 times a game, they should be able to control the ball for a significant portion of the game and implement their game strategy. Teddy is going to have days like today with 121 yards passing and a 50.9 QB rating, but I don't think Zimmer or Turner will have any problem with it at all. I didn't see the first series today (it took as 30 minutes to get through security at The Bank...ridiculous!) and that must be when he threw his only interception, but he wasn't even close to turning the ball over the rest of the game...and he led them to 24 offensive points. If that is what a 50.9 QB rating looks like, I'll take that every Sunday. It's not that he can't throw the long ball....in the first quarter on 3rd and long deep in their own territory, he threw a 40-yard tight spiral that was likely a reception if the defender hadn't interfered. But those will be rare. I think the coaches want ball control, lots of AP and limited turnovers. With the defense that they have, I think that could lead to 10 wins easily.

But is that a formula that can take the team deep into the playoffs? I almost equate it to the basketball version of running everything through the low post. Unless you have an extraordinary low-post talent, it's really tough to win that way these days since it ends up not being a very efficient offense.

AP is 30-years old and still a workhorse. But he will have down games or perhaps get hurt. So unless our defense performs like one of the all-time greats, Teddy is going to have to win some big games with his arm.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Good call, monster, on Teddy's "pocket presence". I know it's an intangible that's difficult to define, but it's a lot like pornography...you can't define it, but you know it when you see it. Teddy's got it. It's like he has eyes in the back of his head that allows him to know when the protection behind him is breaking down. It's really extraordinary for a 2nd year QB, and something that we can expect will even get better.

I think the Vikings have a clear identity and formula for winning, and Teddy is not often going to have gaudy stats if they are implementing it properly. They have a very active, athletic defense that is most disruptive when they are rested, and the key to their being rested is offensive ball control. If Teddy can continue to complete over 70% of his passes and not turn the ball over, and if they continue to put the ball in AP's stomach 25 times a game, they should be able to control the ball for a significant portion of the game and implement their game strategy. Teddy is going to have days like today with 121 yards passing and a 50.9 QB rating, but I don't think Zimmer or Turner will have any problem with it at all. I didn't see the first series today (it took as 30 minutes to get through security at The Bank...ridiculous!) and that must be when he threw his only interception, but he wasn't even close to turning the ball over the rest of the game...and he led them to 24 offensive points. If that is what a 50.9 QB rating looks like, I'll take that every Sunday. It's not that he can't throw the long ball....in the first quarter on 3rd and long deep in their own territory, he threw a 40-yard tight spiral that was likely a reception if the defender hadn't interfered. But those will be rare. I think the coaches want ball control, lots of AP and limited turnovers. With the defense that they have, I think that could lead to 10 wins easily.

But is that a formula that can take the team deep into the playoffs? I almost equate it to the basketball version of running everything through the low post. Unless you have an extraordinary low-post talent, it's really tough to win that way these days since it ends up not being a very efficient offense.

AP is 30-years old and still a workhorse. But he will have down games or perhaps get hurt. So unless our defense performs like one of the all-time greats, Teddy is going to have to win some big games with his arm.

I don't know, q...it certainly would be better if Teddy were more comfortable with the vertical game, but I don't know that it is necessary as long as AP can keep getting his 20 carries. But if AP has to miss a game, Teddy is going to have to step up with a more versatile passing game. You may not have heard this, but we almost didn't have AP yesterday. He texted Zimmer early Sunday morning and said his wife was about to deliver, and he might have to miss the game (inappropriate aside: if AP starts missing games every time he becomes a father, he may not play 10 games!). Fortunately the baby arrived at 9am, and AP was on time. If not, we would have found out if Teddy and Wallace can add the long pass to the Vikings' offense. We don't know yet if they can do it effectively.

[Monster]

The Seahawks and Russell Wilson seem to do just fine with that formula. :) Their best receiver last year was Doug Baldwin. Obviously I am not suggesting the Vikings D will be that good but I also see the Vikings having more going for them when it comes to to receiving talent especially when it comes to TEs than what Seattle had last year. It's 3 games into the season so we will see what happens.