Minnesota Sports Forum

Chris Paul's contract guarantee date got pushed back. Any idea who the Warriors might be able to get? Would they even want Zach Lavine or Brandon Ingram? I think Chicago just wants off Lavine's contract, so cost would be minimal. I think Pels want a decent haul for Ingram or they just keep him-but if Warriors offered CP, Kuminga and a first, that's probably enough. Rumors are Warriors want PG, but I have a hard time believing Clippers are ready to trade PG for lesser players and start their rebuild now, and I think they will wait at least until the trade deadline.

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:00 pm

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:38 pm

60WinTim wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:06 pm

Dang! The West just keeps getting tougher!

One of the few times the West sends a good player east Murray a few years ago, and the east just sends him back.

West sent Lillard, Bridges, Derrick White, Tyus Jones and Hartenstein out East and they returned Porzingis and DiVincenzo to the East.

I suppose, still usually it's the other way around.

kekgeek wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:46 pm Dejounte Murray to the pelicans for Larry Nance, Daniels and 2 1sts

Great move for the Pelicans. The West just keeps getting better. I’d be really bummed if TC hadn’t had pulled off a great draft getting Dillingham and Terrence Shannon Jr. Granted, we can’t expect to rookies to do for us what Caruso and Murray will do for their new teams. But at least we added major talent that could potentially help us next season even if not until the second half of the season.

I think the Hawks got a decent return under the circumstances. The Hawks gave up three 1st round picks and a pick swap to get Murray and one of those picks was an extra 1st they had from Charlotte. In this deal, the Hawks are getting 2 future firsts, a pick swap and Dyson Daniels, who was a relatively recent lottery pick with a ton of talent. So the Hawks are essentially getting back exactly what they gave up.

I wonder if we could get 5 first round picks, a pick swap and three rotational players in return for Rudy today. And even if we could, would we want to given the position we’re in? Interesting academic question. Of course, the far more important question is how do we make sure we’re keeping up with the rest of the west so we can be in a position again to make the NBA finals next season? TC did his best in round 1 of the draft to improve the team. Is there anything else he can do to further improve the team in a meaningful way?

Teams have recently offered two first-round picks for Walker Kessler, which the Jazz declined, per @IanBegley (sny.tv/articles/jazz-…).
New York continues to show interest in acquiring Utah’s center after losing Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency. pic.twitter.com/AQMnSq827c – 8:58 PM

Looks like TC got this pick right. That’s one out of three in 2022. If Minott pans out, TC’s 2022 draft goes to 2 out of 3.

Last season, Walker averaged 7.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in only 23.3 minutes. He’s only 22 years old and will continue to get better. As it stands, the only TC draft picks that can be declared flops are Wendell Moore and Spag. It will be a while before we have a read on Dilly and TSJ. The jury’s still out on Minott and Miller, who are still only 20 and 21 years old respectively. And Clark hasn’t had a chance to play yet. I remain optimistic that when the dust settles in a couple years, it will be clear that TC hit on at least a couple of those five. He clearly hit pay dirt on Kessler.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:20 pm Teams have recently offered two first-round picks for Walker Kessler, which the Jazz declined, per @IanBegley (sny.tv/articles/jazz-…).
New York continues to show interest in acquiring Utah’s center after losing Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency. pic.twitter.com/AQMnSq827c – 8:58 PM

Looks like TC got this pick right. That’s one out of three in 2022. If Minott pans out, TC’s 2022 draft goes to 2 out of 3.

Last season, Walker averaged 7.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in only 23.3 minutes. He’s only 22 years old and will continue to get better. As it stands, the only TC draft picks that can be declared flops are Wendell Moore and Spag. It will be a while before we have a read on Dilly and TSJ. The jury’s still out on Minott and Miller, who are still only 20 and 21 years old respectively. And Clark hasn’t had a chance to play yet. I remain optimistic that when the dust settles in a couple years, it will be clear that TC hit on at least a couple of those five. He clearly hit pay dirt on Kessler.

I honestly couldn't believe Kessler was playing in Summer league. It's interesting that certain centers have quite a bit of value. I wonder what is the price it would take to get Walker Kessler away from Utah. It would be interesting to know right?

Why do you have to bring up my guy Moore being a flop!?! Ugh. It's sadly true tho. Lol

I'm not holding out hope really but I wouldn't call the Spagnolo pick a flop yet plus it's such a dart throw at that part of the draft. He is still only 21 and finished up playing his first season in the best pro europe league outside of NBA. What's great about drafting international players is you keep their rights for years. What if in 5 years at the age of 26 he looks like a rotation player and wants to come over?

This is almost hard to believe (might want to sit down if you aren't already) but the Wolves have a successful example of this in Bjelica. He was drafted in 2010 and didn't come over till 2015 season at the age of 27. He was drafted at the age of 22 so like 3 years older than Spagnolo was when the Wolves drafted him. Bjelica was drafted much higher and yet for a while he looked like just another failed eurostash guy to forget about. He ended up having a nice NBA career. We would be very happy Spagnolo had that type of career Bjelica had who was a solid rotation guy for a few years. Just to compare these guys situations, Bjelica hadn't even played at the highest level of euroleague basketball when he was drafted. He was 22 when he did that a year later than Spagnolo. It looks like the team Spagnolo played on this year was pretty bad tho. Of course he also got injured again (Bjelica had injury problems too which likely hurt his development and continued through his time in the NBA) which has been part of the problem with Spagnolo and he hasn't turned 22 yet.

Again the way to look at Spagnolo is more like a guy drafted or by a major league team like out of high school or signed as a young international player and you expect not to see him in a few years going through a minor league system than a typical 2nd round pick. Those more typical 2nd round guys either make the roster the first year or signs a 2-way etc or basically the pick means nothing because the player becomes a free agent.

With a guy like Spagnolo or Bjelica etc you get a much longer timeframe for a chance of success. Joe Ingles didn't come over to the NBA till he was what 27? Pablo Prigioni didn't come till he was in his late 30's. I've written too much here about a guy I don't think will actually make an impact for the Wolves (like a lot of baseball prospects) or any NBA team but...I think it's worth reminding that the pick could still have value years from now. Heck look at some of the Twins prospects worth paying attention to in their system they weren't top picks. In the past NBA teams have traded for international players so they can sign them.

One last thing is that there is more of a risk drafting an international player that they will decide they don't want to be a bench guy in the NBA and just stay in Europe etc. That's what happened with Bojan Dubljević who I think would have been a guy a some team would have signed to a cheap deal if he was actually really interested in coming over. From what I have read in the last few days it looks like the salaries in Europe recently may not have been as lucrative as they once were but Euroleague teams don't publicize player contracts. Apparently sometimes the salaries we do learn about are the net salaries the player gets not the gross salary. Taxes can be very different too being different countries or other considerations. It can even depend on if you are a resident of where you are playing or not. For example if you are a resident of Spain the tax is over 50%. If it's your first year it's like 20%. Seems complicated. I better go to bed. Lol

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:20 pm Teams have recently offered two first-round picks for Walker Kessler, which the Jazz declined, per @IanBegley (sny.tv/articles/jazz-…).
New York continues to show interest in acquiring Utah’s center after losing Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency. pic.twitter.com/AQMnSq827c – 8:58 PM

Looks like TC got this pick right. That’s one out of three in 2022. If Minott pans out, TC’s 2022 draft goes to 2 out of 3.

Last season, Walker averaged 7.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in only 23.3 minutes. He’s only 22 years old and will continue to get better. As it stands, the only TC draft picks that can be declared flops are Wendell Moore and Spag. It will be a while before we have a read on Dilly and TSJ. The jury’s still out on Minott and Miller, who are still only 20 and 21 years old respectively. And Clark hasn’t had a chance to play yet. I remain optimistic that when the dust settles in a couple years, it will be clear that TC hit on at least a couple of those five. He clearly hit pay dirt on Kessler.

I think Kessler should definitely be considered a good pick at 22 since he is indeed a solid NBA rotation player. That's what you ultimately aim for when you pick at 20 or later.

Having said that, I was a little surprised that he didn't really appear to progress whatsoever between his rookie and 2nd year. And he still mostly came off the bench.

So yes, solid pick by Connelly, but not exactly the "Oh my God why did we trade for Rudy when we already drafted Rudy 2.0!" regret that a lot of Wolves fans expressed the season before last.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:04 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:20 pm Teams have recently offered two first-round picks for Walker Kessler, which the Jazz declined, per @IanBegley (sny.tv/articles/jazz-…).
New York continues to show interest in acquiring Utah’s center after losing Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency. pic.twitter.com/AQMnSq827c – 8:58 PM

Looks like TC got this pick right. That’s one out of three in 2022. If Minott pans out, TC’s 2022 draft goes to 2 out of 3.

Last season, Walker averaged 7.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in only 23.3 minutes. He’s only 22 years old and will continue to get better. As it stands, the only TC draft picks that can be declared flops are Wendell Moore and Spag. It will be a while before we have a read on Dilly and TSJ. The jury’s still out on Minott and Miller, who are still only 20 and 21 years old respectively. And Clark hasn’t had a chance to play yet. I remain optimistic that when the dust settles in a couple years, it will be clear that TC hit on at least a couple of those five. He clearly hit pay dirt on Kessler.

I think Kessler should definitely be considered a good pick at 22 since he is indeed a solid NBA rotation player. That's what you ultimately aim for when you pick at 20 or later.

Having said that, I was a little surprised that he didn't really appear to progress whatsoever between his rookie and 2nd year. And he still mostly came off the bench.

So yes, solid pick by Connelly, but not exactly the "Oh my God why did we trade for Rudy when we already drafted Rudy 2.0!" regret that a lot of Wolves fans expressed the season before last.

After just two seasons there are teams offering multiple first round picks for Walker. So I think those who see a lot more of Kessler than we do are more than a little impressed. I noticed his stats didn’t improve significantly between his first and second season. But 2.4 blocks in 23.3 minutes per game is huge. That’s more than Rudy had in 34 minutes. His scoring on an equivalent minute basis was essentially the same as Rudy’s. He’s rebounding wasn’t on par with Rudy’s but it wasn’t that far off on an equivalent minute basis. I’m not saying Walker’s a good as Rudy; obviously he’s not. But when you consider the numbers he put up in only his second season, you can see why teams are offering multiple firsts for him. And most #22 picks don’t perform nearly as well as Walker in their first two seasons. So while I wouldn’t say: “oh my God why did we trade for Rudy, I will say it was a heck of a pick by TC and I think we’d be a really good team without second apron constrains if we had kept Walker and made different use of a fraction of the assets we gave up for Rudy. I can’t say with any certainty that we would have won 56 games and made the Western Conference Finals if we hadn’t made the trade. But starting from a base of 46 wins I think we would have been a very good team if we’d gone down a different path. That said, it’s a fact that we made the Conference Finals with Rudy and he was a big part of it. That’s why I can’t say the Gobert trade was a failure.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:09 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:04 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:20 pm Teams have recently offered two first-round picks for Walker Kessler, which the Jazz declined, per @IanBegley (sny.tv/articles/jazz-…).
New York continues to show interest in acquiring Utah’s center after losing Isaiah Hartenstein in free agency. pic.twitter.com/AQMnSq827c – 8:58 PM

Looks like TC got this pick right. That’s one out of three in 2022. If Minott pans out, TC’s 2022 draft goes to 2 out of 3.

Last season, Walker averaged 7.5 rebounds and 2.4 blocks in only 23.3 minutes. He’s only 22 years old and will continue to get better. As it stands, the only TC draft picks that can be declared flops are Wendell Moore and Spag. It will be a while before we have a read on Dilly and TSJ. The jury’s still out on Minott and Miller, who are still only 20 and 21 years old respectively. And Clark hasn’t had a chance to play yet. I remain optimistic that when the dust settles in a couple years, it will be clear that TC hit on at least a couple of those five. He clearly hit pay dirt on Kessler.

I think Kessler should definitely be considered a good pick at 22 since he is indeed a solid NBA rotation player. That's what you ultimately aim for when you pick at 20 or later.

Having said that, I was a little surprised that he didn't really appear to progress whatsoever between his rookie and 2nd year. And he still mostly came off the bench.

So yes, solid pick by Connelly, but not exactly the "Oh my God why did we trade for Rudy when we already drafted Rudy 2.0!" regret that a lot of Wolves fans expressed the season before last.

After just two seasons there are teams offering multiple first round picks for Walker. So I think those who see a lot more of Kessler than we do are more than a little impressed. I noticed his stats didn’t improve significantly between his first and second season. But 2.4 blocks in 23.3 minutes per game is huge. That’s more than Rudy had in 34 minutes. His scoring on an equivalent minute basis was essentially the same as Rudy’s. He’s rebounding wasn’t on par with Rudy’s but it wasn’t that far off on an equivalent minute basis. I’m not saying Walker’s a good as Rudy; obviously he’s not. But when you consider the numbers he put up in only his second season, you can see why teams are offering multiple firsts for him. And most #22 picks don’t perform nearly as well as Walker in their first two seasons. So while I wouldn’t say: “oh my God why did we trade for Rudy, I will say it was a heck of a pick by TC and I think we’d be a really good team without second apron constrains if we had kept Walker and made different use of a fraction of the assets we gave up for Rudy. I can’t say with any certainty that we would have won 56 games and made the Western Conference Finals if we hadn’t made the trade. But starting from a base of 46 wins I think we would have been a very good team if we’d gone down a different path. That said, it’s a fact that we made the Conference Finals with Rudy and he was a big part of it. That’s why I can’t say the Gobert trade was a failure.

Be careful on what you read about what has been offered before a trade has happened. I mean is Danny Ainge leaking that teams are offering multiple picks to drive up the price when that could be not true at all.

Also don’t you think it’s a little weird that Kessler is playing summer league in year 3 what is extremely rare for rotation pieces. Don’t you think it’s weird that Kessler is coming off the bench for the Jazz last year on a bad team, don’t you think it’s weird that team USA couldn’t get a rebound or have any bigs outside of JJJ and Kerr still wouldn’t give Kessler minutes. Don’t you think it’s weird that the Jazz were in the 28th percentile (what is terrible) defensively with Kessler on the floor last year. Don’t you think it’s weird that when Kessler was on the floor shot 55.9% eFG% what is in the 33rd percentile comparing that to Rudy teams had a eFG% 51.1 what is in the 96th percentile. Don’t you think it’s weird that if Kessler is that good a rebuilding team is trying to trade him. Yes Kessler gets blocks but it’s sort of like a DE and sacks, yes they are cool and important but if you are a liability in a majority of plays other than your sacks you need to look into it.


Kessler might end up being a stud but he really took a step back this year and just makes no sense to me why if he is that good why are the Jazz trying to trade him now when he is so cheap and why is he not starting and why is he playing summer league, and why did Zach Eddy eat him alive in SL?

Watching shoot-around. Clark’s shot and shooting mechanics look terrific. Miller’s mechanics look terrible. Clark and Nix were the only guys hitting anything in shoot-around.

Rob’s shot looked good.

Starting both Nix and Rob. Nix looks really wide and bulky next to Rob.