Around the league offseason

[Lipoli390]

The guys of any worthwhile ilk that signed with those teams so far are getting either starting or clear cut roles and got paid more than what the Wolves were likely offering. The Wolves had enough talent they didn't even keep Garza and Minott 2 guys the Celtics were happy to scoop up for cheap deals. Leonard Miller might never play this year. Jaylen Clark might not even play in 20+ games this year because there are that many guys in front of him.

Are the Wolves as much of a destination as those teams? No but like Lip said they are building their own culture and they have been able to accumulate talent in a variety of ways some of which has kept them from landing FAs especially the last 2 offseason...so far.

If the Wolves finish up this season and they find they need a PG they might be able to sign a FA for a cheaper deal because there is an opportunity. Right now it's like hey do you want to sit on the bench and cheer next to Joe Ingles and maybe play of there are a couple injuries? If so great we got a vet min deal for you! Maybe this is a good place for Ben Simmons if that's all he wants to do. I think it's clear for whatever reason he isn't giving his everything to the game. Maybe his injuries are more problematic than we know.

I really think it's too risky going into this season without another point guard. Any free agent point guard, should salivate at the idea of coming here knowing Mike Conley is 38 and could get benched or injured at any moment at his age, opening up big minutes next to Ant. We still find all these free agents not even looking our way. We'll probably end up signing PJ Dozier or Bones who won't be able to help if Mike goes down or falls off completely this year. There is no way Rob is ready to play 30 minutes a night if that happens.

Agreed. No idea why we’re not getting more interest (maybe we are?) from some of these guys. I saw something on lamebook about Westbrook wanting to play with Ant, but who knows if that’s reliable. That guy is just terrible though, wouldn’t want him playing for Iowa wolves lol

You’d think a guy like Brogden would be all over this opportunity

I like Westbrook and think he’d be a great addition. He plays with heart and he brings toughness. I like Brogdon but I’m not sure he’ll ever stay healthy. He clearly doesn’t fit our defensive culture either.

But bottom line is that Monster’s right. It’s not that players don’t’ want to come here. It’s that we have a deep roster and the really attractive FAs that have signed elsewhere went to teams where they can expect to play significant minutes in clearly defined roles. I don’t think free agent PGs assume that they’ll get much playing time beyond Conley, who our coaching staff loves, and Rob, who TC traded up to #8 to get. It’s possible that a FA PG could come here and end up getting a lot of minutes but I don’t think free agents are inclined to assume that.

Nevertheless, there are still a number of good backup PGs available. Westbrook and Brogdon are two of them. I’d also include Cameron Payne, Gary Payton III, and Monte Morris. Of course we have our own Bones Hyland.

[Monster]

This is a lengthy but I think interesting read. It seems like there could be a spot for RHJ on an NBA team.

https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/ ... 443425007/

[D-Loser25]

I really think it's too risky going into this season without another point guard. Any free agent point guard, should salivate at the idea of coming here knowing Mike Conley is 38 and could get benched or injured at any moment at his age, opening up big minutes next to Ant. We still find all these free agents not even looking our way. We'll probably end up signing PJ Dozier or Bones who won't be able to help if Mike goes down or falls off completely this year. There is no way Rob is ready to play 30 minutes a night if that happens.

Agreed. No idea why we’re not getting more interest (maybe we are?) from some of these guys. I saw something on lamebook about Westbrook wanting to play with Ant, but who knows if that’s reliable. That guy is just terrible though, wouldn’t want him playing for Iowa wolves lol

You’d think a guy like Brogden would be all over this opportunity

I like Westbrook and think he’d be a great addition. He plays with heart and he brings toughness. I like Brogdon but I’m not sure he’ll ever stay healthy. He clearly doesn’t fit our defensive culture either.

But bottom line is that Monster’s right. It’s not that players don’t’ want to come here. It’s that we have a deep roster and the really attractive FAs that have signed elsewhere went to teams where they can expect to play significant minutes in clearly defined roles. I don’t think free agent PGs assume that they’ll get much playing time beyond Conley, who our coaching staff loves, and Rob, who TC traded up to #8 to get. It’s possible that a FA PG could come here and end up getting a lot of minutes but I don’t think free agents are inclined to assume that.

Nevertheless, there are still a number of good backup PGs available. Westbrook and Brogdon are two of them. I’d also include Cameron Payne, Gary Payton III, and Monte Morris. Of course we have our own Bones Hyland.

I’m not gonna say that someone is definitively right or wrong, because you have no way of knowing that unless you’re secretly TC lol. I just think that Conley could go downhill very fast and Dilly could also show pretty fast that he needs another year for significant minutes… I think those are both pretty fair possibilities. Then where does that leave you? That’s why I think we’ll see either Brogden or Westbrook brought in. I actually really like Westbrook, for the reasons you said, but I still don’t want him here. He shoots you out of games consistently, but you can’t say anything to him because of who he is. I saw that with Denver and I just laughed and knew he wouldn’t be back there. Great guy but I don’t want him shooting us out of games because he thinks he’s still a star. Hopefully that makes sense. If you could somehow make him realize that he’s a role player now who should limit his outside shots, then sign me up. But that’s not in his DNA

[Monster]

Agreed. No idea why we’re not getting more interest (maybe we are?) from some of these guys. I saw something on lamebook about Westbrook wanting to play with Ant, but who knows if that’s reliable. That guy is just terrible though, wouldn’t want him playing for Iowa wolves lol

You’d think a guy like Brogden would be all over this opportunity

I like Westbrook and think he’d be a great addition. He plays with heart and he brings toughness. I like Brogdon but I’m not sure he’ll ever stay healthy. He clearly doesn’t fit our defensive culture either.

But bottom line is that Monster’s right. It’s not that players don’t’ want to come here. It’s that we have a deep roster and the really attractive FAs that have signed elsewhere went to teams where they can expect to play significant minutes in clearly defined roles. I don’t think free agent PGs assume that they’ll get much playing time beyond Conley, who our coaching staff loves, and Rob, who TC traded up to #8 to get. It’s possible that a FA PG could come here and end up getting a lot of minutes but I don’t think free agents are inclined to assume that.

Nevertheless, there are still a number of good backup PGs available. Westbrook and Brogdon are two of them. I’d also include Cameron Payne, Gary Payton III, and Monte Morris. Of course we have our own Bones Hyland.

I’m not gonna say that someone is definitively right or wrong, because you have no way of knowing that unless you’re secretly TC lol. I just think that Conley could go downhill very fast and Dilly could also show pretty fast that he needs another year for significant minutes… I think those are both pretty fair possibilities. Then where does that leave you? That’s why I think we’ll see either Brogden or Westbrook brought in. I actually really like Westbrook, for the reasons you said, but I still don’t want him here. He shoots you out of games consistently, but you can’t say anything to him because of who he is. I saw that with Denver and I just laughed and knew he wouldn’t be back there. Great guy but I don’t want him shooting us out of games because he thinks he’s still a star. Hopefully that makes sense. If you could somehow make him realize that he’s a role player now who should limit his outside shots, then sign me up. But that’s not in his DNA

Last year in Denver Westbrook took the fewest shots per 36 in his career at 14 and he was not horribly inefficient compared to some previous seasons. Quite frankly the Wolves have been missing a guy that sometimes shoots you out of games...but might keep you in others.

Meanwhile Westbrook also piles up assists too. I'd argue the issue with Westbrook is his turnovers as well as making some other poor decisions. I agree it is difficult to some extent to just bench him etc but it's also because he isn't actually terrible he can absolutely still play. What was Denver record when he started games? Looks like it was pretty good. I'm not beating the drum for him to come here but to some extent getting Westbrook for a vet min is a pretty good deal but it comes with good and bad. The thing is your coach has to be willing to sit him and you should probably have some worthy option to play instead. If you want a guy to just play his butt off and play defense and not screw up Clark is probably that guy.

Again the Wolves have other guard wing options to get mins so you could see someone getting minutes that's not a typical ball handling guard next to Edwards. That's another reason why this isn't a wildly awesome opportunity for someone to jump at. If I remember right Westbrook played a fair amount of minutes with Murray last year so...yeah maybe we should get Westbrook? Lol

Like Lip said Brogdon's health is a real issue. There is a real possibility he does even play 50 games and isn't healthy for the playoffs. I'm not saying don't sihn him but if you do there is a real downside and when he played last year he didn't shoot the 3 well. What if he gets old fast?

[Lipoli390]

Agreed. No idea why we’re not getting more interest (maybe we are?) from some of these guys. I saw something on lamebook about Westbrook wanting to play with Ant, but who knows if that’s reliable. That guy is just terrible though, wouldn’t want him playing for Iowa wolves lol

You’d think a guy like Brogden would be all over this opportunity

I like Westbrook and think he’d be a great addition. He plays with heart and he brings toughness. I like Brogdon but I’m not sure he’ll ever stay healthy. He clearly doesn’t fit our defensive culture either.

But bottom line is that Monster’s right. It’s not that players don’t’ want to come here. It’s that we have a deep roster and the really attractive FAs that have signed elsewhere went to teams where they can expect to play significant minutes in clearly defined roles. I don’t think free agent PGs assume that they’ll get much playing time beyond Conley, who our coaching staff loves, and Rob, who TC traded up to #8 to get. It’s possible that a FA PG could come here and end up getting a lot of minutes but I don’t think free agents are inclined to assume that.

Nevertheless, there are still a number of good backup PGs available. Westbrook and Brogdon are two of them. I’d also include Cameron Payne, Gary Payton III, and Monte Morris. Of course we have our own Bones Hyland.

I’m not gonna say that someone is definitively right or wrong, because you have no way of knowing that unless you’re secretly TC lol. I just think that Conley could go downhill very fast and Dilly could also show pretty fast that he needs another year for significant minutes… I think those are both pretty fair possibilities. Then where does that leave you? That’s why I think we’ll see either Brogden or Westbrook brought in. I actually really like Westbrook, for the reasons you said, but I still don’t want him here. He shoots you out of games consistently, but you can’t say anything to him because of who he is. I saw that with Denver and I just laughed and knew he wouldn’t be back there. Great guy but I don’t want him shooting us out of games because he thinks he’s still a star. Hopefully that makes sense. If you could somehow make him realize that he’s a role player now who should limit his outside shots, then sign me up. But that’s not in his DNA

That’s why sports debates are fun. I totally see your point. Your point about Conley declining precipitously next season is definitely valid. As you know, I have prior posts documenting that NBA players in their late 30s generally don’t decline gradually but instead decline in big chunks from one season to the next - often plateauing for a season and then declining again. I also agree that Dilly, who I’m really high on, might show he needs another year of seasoning before he’d ready to take on a major rotation role for us at PG. I’m just not sure the better free agents look at it in that way. Next season might be a plateau rather than a decline season for Conley. Dilly looked good in Summer League and might be ready. We have Donte who can play some PG and Edwards is a ball dominant SG. Then there’s TSJ and Clark. Lots of depth.

So if you’re someone like Brogdon, calculating the probability of significant minutes, there will probably be better options for you. And because we’re so close to the 2nd apron, we probably can’t pay as much as a number of other teams. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t totally dismiss the possibility of Brogdon or Westbrook signing here. Of the two, I think Westbrook is more likely. I suspect that Brogdon is still thinking about recapturing his form and possibly playing for a bigger contract next season. In contrast, Westbrook is at an age where he’s just finishing out his career and would like to cap it off with a championship. From the Wolves standpoint, Westbrook also fits our defense-first culture better than Brogdon does.

Regarding Westbrook, I agree with you about his tendency to shoot his team out of games. He has remained stubborn about taking perimeter shots he shouldn’t take. That’s interesting for a player who has also put up huge assist numbers. He’s definitely not selfish and he’s been a good playmaker through his career. I just think he’s so hyper-competitive that his competitiveness overwhelms his judgment as he tries to win game for his team by shooting.

[Lipoli390]

I like Westbrook and think he’d be a great addition. He plays with heart and he brings toughness. I like Brogdon but I’m not sure he’ll ever stay healthy. He clearly doesn’t fit our defensive culture either.

But bottom line is that Monster’s right. It’s not that players don’t’ want to come here. It’s that we have a deep roster and the really attractive FAs that have signed elsewhere went to teams where they can expect to play significant minutes in clearly defined roles. I don’t think free agent PGs assume that they’ll get much playing time beyond Conley, who our coaching staff loves, and Rob, who TC traded up to #8 to get. It’s possible that a FA PG could come here and end up getting a lot of minutes but I don’t think free agents are inclined to assume that.

Nevertheless, there are still a number of good backup PGs available. Westbrook and Brogdon are two of them. I’d also include Cameron Payne, Gary Payton III, and Monte Morris. Of course we have our own Bones Hyland.

I’m not gonna say that someone is definitively right or wrong, because you have no way of knowing that unless you’re secretly TC lol. I just think that Conley could go downhill very fast and Dilly could also show pretty fast that he needs another year for significant minutes… I think those are both pretty fair possibilities. Then where does that leave you? That’s why I think we’ll see either Brogden or Westbrook brought in. I actually really like Westbrook, for the reasons you said, but I still don’t want him here. He shoots you out of games consistently, but you can’t say anything to him because of who he is. I saw that with Denver and I just laughed and knew he wouldn’t be back there. Great guy but I don’t want him shooting us out of games because he thinks he’s still a star. Hopefully that makes sense. If you could somehow make him realize that he’s a role player now who should limit his outside shots, then sign me up. But that’s not in his DNA

Last year in Denver Westbrook took the fewest shots per 36 in his career at 14 and he was not horribly inefficient compared to some previous seasons. Quite frankly the Wolves have been missing a guy that sometimes shoots you out of games...but might keep you in others.

Meanwhile Westbrook also piles up assists too. I'd argue the issue with Westbrook is his turnovers as well as making some other poor decisions. I agree it is difficult to some extent to just bench him etc but it's also because he isn't actually terrible he can absolutely still play. What was Denver record when he started games? Looks like it was pretty good. I'm not beating the drum for him to come here but to some extent getting Westbrook for a vet min is a pretty good deal but it comes with good and bad. The thing is your coach has to be willing to sit him and you should probably have some worthy option to play instead. If you want a guy to just play his butt off and play defense and not screw up Clark is probably that guy.

Again the Wolves have other guard wing options to get mins so you could see someone getting minutes that's not a typical ball handling guard next to Edwards. That's another reason why this isn't a wildly awesome opportunity for someone to jump at. If I remember right Westbrook played a fair amount of minutes with Murray last year so...yeah maybe we should get Westbrook? Lol

Like Lip said Brogdon's health is a real issue. There is a real possibility he does even play 50 games and isn't healthy for the playoffs. I'm not saying don't sihn him but if you do there is a real downside and when he played last year he didn't shoot the 3 well. What if he gets old fast?

Good point about Brogdon, Monster. If we’re worried about Conley’s age, we should consider Brogdon’s inability to stay healthy. I like the phrase you used - getting old fast. Brogdon’s obvious physical breakdown over the past few years is just as problematic if not more so than Conley’s chronological age.

[Phenom]

Spurs just gave Fox 57.5 per year for 4 years. I don't think that will be amazing for the Spurs if/when they decide that a Fox, Harper, Castle trio can't coexist. I actually thought Fox could be a candidate for a trade here at some point but probably not at that number.

[Monster]

Spurs just gave Fox 57.5 per year for 4 years. I don't think that will be amazing for the Spurs if/when they decide that a Fox, Harper, Castle trio can't coexist. I actually thought Fox could be a candidate for a trade here at some point but probably not at that number.

It's won't start till 2026-2027 season and soon 50ish million is what higher end players are gonna be getting. I think the concern I would have for Fox at those numbers is where he will be physically as he hits his early 30's...or maybe even at 29. Unless he really drops off there will probably still be a team willing to trade for him. I like him but Phenom ultimately I'm kinda with you I'm not sure if I would have wanted to give him that deal though. He wanted out but it's a reason why I don't think it was all that horrible for the Kings to have to have traded him.

[Porckchop]

Good Westbrook gives the second unit energy and playmaking
Bad Westbrook can single handedly lose you a close game.
Brogdon is a steady, low turnover, high percentage shooter that’s capable of bigger minutes if needed without sacrificing to much. He reminds me of a bigger, better shooting Andre Miller. Miller was a solid vet for many years.

[Monster]

Celtics pay Utah to take Niang off their hands then sign Chris Boucher for the vet min. Not a bad piece of work to save a bunch of money and add a pretty solid player to the roster.

Meanwhile Utah has various worthwhile players and contracts to facilitate trades.