Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Monster]

Yeah, Drew, I have been wishy-washy on the whole "Jaden at PF" thing, too. The one point I would beg to differ is the lineup flexibility -- I think it is a foregone conclusion that our 14th roster spot will go to a big. That will give Finch all sorts of flexibility whether to start Jaden at the 3 or 4. Heck, we might see some experimentation early in the season as Finch figures out what configuration works best.

I agree our 14th roster spot will likely be filled by a big. But if it’s not LeBron, I don’t see any starting caliber PFs among free agents available at the vet minimum. So I don’t see the Wolves signing anyone better than Trey Lyles to slot in as a starting PF unless perhaps the Wolves are willing to settle for a defensive rebounder who can’t shoot starting some games at that position.

Imho Kelly Olynyk is better than Trey Lyles and I've been a fan of both guys for quite a while.

[AussieWolf3]

This isn't about Trey Lyles.

This is about how we are going to fill 48 minutes a night at that position.

And IMO, Lyles fits the type of player we need in that role. A legit-sized 4 who can stretch the floor.

But Lyles averaged 18 minutes off the bench for four years before the Sacramento Kings opted not to keep him at the end of the 2024-25 season. That's not a guy that a serious contender should have to trust with anything more than backup minutes at the 4.

Jaden is an awesome player. I love him. I can see him playing some at the 4 and I'm interested in the kinds of advantages that might bring us at times. But at this point, if we go into the season expecting Jaden to start at the 4 and play the majority of his minutes there with nobody who could legitimately take that starting role from him if and when the negatives outweigh the positives because of the advantages it would give other teams over us (which I laid out in my earlier thread--limiting our options of who to put Jaden on defensively, subjecting ourselves to mismatches our opponents could exploit, etc.), I think we're going into the season taking a huge risk with no serious backup plan and therefore little flexibility. It's basically ceding the ground to our opponents to be able to create mismatches against us and we don't really have the ability to respond.

If we don't add anybody else and Jaden starts at the 4, it will mean one of four things: 1) Jaden will either have to defend bigger guys who will be beating him up night after night and getting him into foul trouble, or 2) other guys (TJ, Ayo, Ant) will have to defend taller guys and have to deal with those disadvantages, or 3) we'd have to rely on a guy who wasn't even in the NBA last year more than a contender should, or 4) we'd have to play Beringer at the 4 next to Rudy and kill our offense.

Why would we go into the season leaving ourselves only those 4 options in a season that is so important?

I respect your viewpoint Drew, but I think your very much over blowing how "beat up" he'd get and if fact he'll likely far less over taxed and foul heavy defending as 4 --- which will be off ball a much higher percentage of the time. The energy drain of chasing around ball handlers and fighting through screens is a fucking grind.

I agree that there is risk here, hopefully one that is mitigated by an additional signing for another backup, but what's confusing to me is the idea that Jaden is optimal on ball which thereby lessens his offensive impact.

Again I ask: has he thrived? One 2nd team All defense is 6 years with highly variant opportunities on offense is hardly my definition of thriving. The Wolves FO insists that there are all these things he can do, all while making him "untouchable" in trades. I don't care what it takes, but can we please just put him in position to actually access this potential and translate it into production?

The most significant questions to ask regarding that are: are other players capable of defending at the point of attack in his stead? Is there a backup PF?

There are reasonable, yet not fully settled answers to those questions currently on the roster with one roster spot left to add more answers

I'll also echo what Monster said about team defense being more important than mono e mono matchups. I'll also add that Julius Randle is and was an amazing 1 on 1 defender.... When he wanted to be. We all remember that game in January or whatever against the Spurs, absolutely amazing stuff--- for one or two possessions. And it didn't do his DRTG a lick of good and it didn't matter two shits in the playoffs. You'd think after spending two seasons with THE prototype PF build, we would understand that might not be the most important factor at the end of the day

"he'll likely far less over taxed and foul heavy defending as 4 --- which will be off ball a much higher percentage of the time."

Fair point, except, I would say, for those 6 or so PFs in the Western Conference I mentioned who can and do handle the ball and drive with it. But fair point.

"The energy drain of chasing around ball handlers and fighting through screens is a fucking grind."

Again, true. And I do like having Jaden off the ball defensively because he is a good opportunistic help defender. But this does raise the question of who WILL be our POA defender. I thought Ayo was ok last year, but not as good as NAW was. Clark could be great with that, but then you're really hurting your offense.

It's not that Jaden is necessarily optimal on the ball, it's that you want to have the flexibility to put him on or off ball defensively without sacrificing something, and without another a legit 4 who we can count on for more than 15-20 minutes a night, we don't really have that flexibility. For example, let's say we end up facing the Nuggets again next year and Murray starts torching us with Jaden off the ball. Or SGA? Or Harper? What if the Jazz make a leap and Peterson turns out to be all he's cracked up to be and gets really hot? It just forces us into making sacrifices. Bring on Clark and hurt the offense or use Jaden as a fire blanket and you're leaning on Trey Lyles or forcing everybody else to guard up. With Luka, we honestly probably have to play Jaden on him because there's nobody else who realistically can, so now you'll have to put TJ, Ant, Ayo, or Clark (or Green) onto Mamu, which again, puts those guys into a tough position defensively having to guard up.

"team defense being more important than mono e mono matchups."

Good point. I don't mean to dwell on one-on-one matchups. But for this whole team defense thing to work, especially when we're giving up strength and weight to opponents more this year, Ant and Melo are both going to absolutely get their heads out of their asses on defense. Will they? God I hope so.

"can we please just put him [Jaden] in position to actually access this potential and translate it into production"

I do think it's fair to suspect that it could help open up Jaden's offense by moving him more off the ball on defense. And a part of that is also hopefully making sure there are four floor spacers on the floor with him at all times to open up the middle of the floor for him. (On a side note, I also think adding LaMelo will really help him find scoring opportunities.) But I do fear one thing holding Jaden back offensively has been Jaden himself. He's shown that he can be really agressive out there offensively regardless of the lineup or his defensive assignment, but he just hasn't done it consistently. I do hope this smaller lineup will make this easier for him, but he'll still need to choose to consistently do it. If he does, great! We can add that to the positive side of the chart measuring the outcomes of going small and moving him to the 4. But those potential negatives are still there, and if they come to fruition and if his offense doesn't really consistently grow next year to outweigh them, then we're left probably having to put a lot of hope in Trey Lyles. Again, I like Lyles, I think he's a good fit for what we need, but I just feel a little worried that he's like, the one safety net we've got for this experiment.

You guys have moved my thinking on this Jaden at the 4 thing somewhat. I see the logic in it, and I see more possible positives than before. But I do think there are some real plausible negatives, and without another big (hell, even a big body to throw out there like Leonard Miller would make me feel a little better), it just feels like we're not giving ourselves much lineup flexibility.

I think your position is entirely valid and defensible--- and well argued --- and in fact you've moved me into a more doubtful position.

I still regard Melo, Ant, Green, Jaden, and Rudy as the best combination of a starting 5, that, if I understand Green's skillset well enough, will be better defensively than this last years. Obviously that means I'm pretty bullish on the team as a whole. I'm also putting a fair amount of faith in Ant and Melo defensively that they may not deserve but I do think they'll step up.

Having said that, I share a lot of your concern about Jaden starting at the 4, and hope this team can find someone with more size and length in future seasons. My ideal lineup would be swapping Green for someone like Keegan Murray. Essentially creating an extremely flexible and switchable stable of forwards, and my great hope is that Ant could actually step into that role (a real pipe dream I know).

I'll add too that I agree, sometime it has been Jaden seeming to get in his own way on offense and perhaps not bringing the same aggression to every matchup. It would be an unfortunate turn if that bears out

[Lipoli390]

Yeah, Drew, I have been wishy-washy on the whole "Jaden at PF" thing, too. The one point I would beg to differ is the lineup flexibility -- I think it is a foregone conclusion that our 14th roster spot will go to a big. That will give Finch all sorts of flexibility whether to start Jaden at the 3 or 4. Heck, we might see some experimentation early in the season as Finch figures out what configuration works best.

I agree our 14th roster spot will likely be filled by a big. But if it’s not LeBron, I don’t see any starting caliber PFs among free agents available at the vet minimum. So I don’t see the Wolves signing anyone better than Trey Lyles to slot in as a starting PF unless perhaps the Wolves are willing to settle for a defensive rebounder who can’t shoot starting some games at that position.

Imho Kelly Olynyk is better than Trey Lyles and I've been a fan of both guys for quite a while.

I disagree, Monster. I’m sure we both agree that neither one should be our starting PF. Of the two I think Trey is a much better option than Kelly. Here’s what Gemini said when I asked which would be the better starting PF for the Wolves:

Trey Lyles would be the better option to start at power forward for the Minnesota Timberwolves. While neither player is ideal for a high-minutes starting role alongside Rudy Gobert, Lyles' superior modern athleticism, lateral quickness, and experience in a modern space-and-pace frontcourt make him the more viable fit.

The Fit with Rudy Gobert.

The primary challenge for Minnesota's coaching staff is finding a power forward who can complement Rudy Gobert defensively and offensively.

Why Trey Lyles Fits Better: Lyles brings solid mobility for a 6'9" forward, allowing him to hold his own in perimeter switches and transitional defense. In his 2025-26 championship season overseas with Real Madrid and his previous NBA runs with the Sacramento Kings, Lyles proved highly capable of playing a complementary, athletic role next to a traditional center. His pick-and-pop capability stretches defenses cleanly.

Why Kelly Olynyk Struggles Here: Olynyk is a highly skilled 7-foot playmaker and shooter, but his foot speed has sharply declined. In the 2025-26 season with the San Antonio Spurs, Olynyk's role shrank drastically to just 8.8 minutes per game.

Starting an aging, slow-footed Olynyk next to Gobert would paralyze the Timberwolves' perimeter defense, making it incredibly difficult to contain dynamic Western Conference offenses.

[Lipoli390]

Giving it some more thought, I would do one of the following if we don’t get LeBron:

1. Sign Jeremy Sochan to a vet minimum deal to provide us with high energy, athleticism, some of Naz Reid’s ball-handling ability (similar to Vanderbilt), and most importantly rebounding; or

2. Trade Josh Green straight up for Obi Toppin. Obi is definitely a PF in both bulk and length. He’s a terrific offensive player who can run the floor, finish strong inside and hit threes. He’s actually a better defender statistically than I thought. His defensive rating has consistently matched his team’s defensive rating - identical, slightly better or slightly worse - in each of his NBA seasons. In other words, he doesn’t appear to be a drag on his team’s defense. His offensive rating has been consistently and substantially positive. He has a net positive plus/minus (defensive and offense) in every season except last season, which ended with a stress fracture in his foot. I haven’t been crazy about the idea of the Wolves trading for Obi because of his relatively poor rebounding and that stress fracture last season. But I’ve also assumed he’s a poor defender. Knowing that he’s a decent defender and thinking about his overall offensive game and how well he’d fit with LaMelo, I’ve put him at the top of my realistic PF trade target list. Because his salary matches perfectly with Green’s, we wouldn’t have to wait 60 days for the end of the ban on aggregating Green’s salary. The deal would make sense for Indiana because they’re overloaded at the PF position and apparently looking to shed long-term salary so they can extend Myles Turner after next season. Green would give them a sold 3&D wing on an expiring contract.

[Monster]

I agree our 14th roster spot will likely be filled by a big. But if it’s not LeBron, I don’t see any starting caliber PFs among free agents available at the vet minimum. So I don’t see the Wolves signing anyone better than Trey Lyles to slot in as a starting PF unless perhaps the Wolves are willing to settle for a defensive rebounder who can’t shoot starting some games at that position.

Imho Kelly Olynyk is better than Trey Lyles and I've been a fan of both guys for quite a while.

I disagree, Monster. I’m sure we both agree that neither one should be our starting PF. Of the two I think Trey is a much better option than Kelly. Here’s what Gemini said when I asked which would be the better starting PF for the Wolves:

Trey Lyles would be the better option to start at power forward for the Minnesota Timberwolves. While neither player is ideal for a high-minutes starting role alongside Rudy Gobert, Lyles' superior modern athleticism, lateral quickness, and experience in a modern space-and-pace frontcourt make him the more viable fit.

The Fit with Rudy Gobert.

The primary challenge for Minnesota's coaching staff is finding a power forward who can complement Rudy Gobert defensively and offensively.

Why Trey Lyles Fits Better: Lyles brings solid mobility for a 6'9" forward, allowing him to hold his own in perimeter switches and transitional defense. In his 2025-26 championship season overseas with Real Madrid and his previous NBA runs with the Sacramento Kings, Lyles proved highly capable of playing a complementary, athletic role next to a traditional center. His pick-and-pop capability stretches defenses cleanly.

Why Kelly Olynyk Struggles Here: Olynyk is a highly skilled 7-foot playmaker and shooter, but his foot speed has sharply declined. In the 2025-26 season with the San Antonio Spurs, Olynyk's role shrank drastically to just 8.8 minutes per game.

Starting an aging, slow-footed Olynyk next to Gobert would paralyze the Timberwolves' perimeter defense, making it incredibly difficult to contain dynamic Western Conference offenses.

Lip my point was I think Olynyk is a better player than Lyles. Whether he is a better fit or can play PF that's fair but a season age he was still putting up some pretty nice stats and has some nice stats. We aren't getting any players without flaws and that included if we had the full mid-level to spend. John Collins isn't that thrilling as a starter to be honest.

[Monster]

Giving it some more thought, I would do one of the following if we don’t get LeBron:

1. Sign Jeremy Sochan to a vet minimum deal to provide us with high energy, athleticism, some of Naz Reid’s ball-handling ability (similar to Vanderbilt), and most importantly rebounding; or

2. Trade Josh Green straight up for Obi Toppin. Obi is definitely a PF in both bulk and length. He’s a terrific offensive player who can run the floor, finish strong inside and hit threes. He’s actually a better defender statistically than I thought. His defensive rating has consistently matched his team’s defensive rating - identical, slightly better or slightly worse - in each of his NBA seasons. In other words, he doesn’t appear to be a drag on his team’s defense. His offensive rating has been consistently and substantially positive. He has a net positive plus/minus (defensive and offense) in every season except last season, which ended with a stress fracture in his foot. I haven’t been crazy about the idea of the Wolves trading for Obi because of his relatively poor rebounding and that stress fracture last season. But I’ve also assumed he’s a poor defender. Knowing that he’s a decent defender and thinking about his overall offensive game and how well he’d fit with LaMelo, I’ve put him at the top of my realistic PF trade target list. Because his salary matches perfectly with Green’s, we wouldn’t have to wait 60 days for the end of the ban on aggregating Green’s salary. The deal would make sense for Indiana because they’re overloaded at the PF position and apparently looking to shed long-term salary so they can extend Myles Turner after next season. Green would give them a sold 3&D wing on an expiring contract.

Lip I get that we need a PF. I spent some time on Toppin when looking for Randle trades. Based on what I read Toppin is not a good defender. Fans seemed to pretty much agree he wasn't good on that end.

Now here is the biggest thing is the Wolves simply can't afford to spend over 16 million on a backup a year from now. That's an opportunity cost that I can't live with. Who won't we be able to sign or resign due to that money he on the books?

I'd rather sign Sochan (or some other guy) and hope he can at least defend and rebound decently for the vet min than hitch my wagon to Toppin for that salary. It's not that Toppin is a bad player but the financials matter a lot.

[rapsuperstar31]

Rebounding is the only issue I would have with trying the Jaden at the 4 experiment. Ball is a good rebounder at the pg spot. We've seen Ant grab 7 and 7.8 rebounds per game in the playoffs two years, can he get close to that in a full season with less offensive responsibility? When we had some injuries in the 24-25 season and Finch challenged Jaden to rebound the basketball, we saw him grab 6.4 rebounds in the month of January and 8.4 in the month of February that year. Can he grab 7+ rebounds per game not being the poa defender if Ayo or Green take that role? Randle and Naz weren't exactly good rebounders on this team. I'm not worried about Jaden's defense at pf, if he gets in trouble Rudy is there to backup. If another player gets in trouble we have Rudy and Jaden to the rescue to back them up.

[Mnwild1128]

Yeah, Drew, I have been wishy-washy on the whole "Jaden at PF" thing, too. The one point I would beg to differ is the lineup flexibility -- I think it is a foregone conclusion that our 14th roster spot will go to a big. That will give Finch all sorts of flexibility whether to start Jaden at the 3 or 4. Heck, we might see some experimentation early in the season as Finch figures out what configuration works best.

I agree our 14th roster spot will likely be filled by a big. But if it’s not LeBron, I don’t see any starting caliber PFs among free agents available at the vet minimum. So I don’t see the Wolves signing anyone better than Trey Lyles to slot in as a starting PF unless perhaps the Wolves are willing to settle for a defensive rebounder who can’t shoot starting some games at that position.

Imho Kelly Olynyk is better than Trey Lyles and I've been a fan of both guys for quite a while.

Was better. He isn't anymore.

[Monster]

I agree our 14th roster spot will likely be filled by a big. But if it’s not LeBron, I don’t see any starting caliber PFs among free agents available at the vet minimum. So I don’t see the Wolves signing anyone better than Trey Lyles to slot in as a starting PF unless perhaps the Wolves are willing to settle for a defensive rebounder who can’t shoot starting some games at that position.

Imho Kelly Olynyk is better than Trey Lyles and I've been a fan of both guys for quite a while.

Was better. He isn't anymore.

Regardless I'd take him on this roster for the vet min if they wanted a vet that can do a variety of things including space the floor and his passing is a pretty nice thing to have. If the issue is having him guard PFs let Beringer do that. I'm not really banging that big of a drum for the guy but I do think he still has game to offer a team if they have the right need.

Most here didn't even think of Lyles and it seems like a pretty solid depth signing. I tend to think of Lebron doesn't sign Connelly has some sort of other option we may not have considered to help fill that spot.

[Lipoli390]

Giving it some more thought, I would do one of the following if we don’t get LeBron:

1. Sign Jeremy Sochan to a vet minimum deal to provide us with high energy, athleticism, some of Naz Reid’s ball-handling ability (similar to Vanderbilt), and most importantly rebounding; or

2. Trade Josh Green straight up for Obi Toppin. Obi is definitely a PF in both bulk and length. He’s a terrific offensive player who can run the floor, finish strong inside and hit threes. He’s actually a better defender statistically than I thought. His defensive rating has consistently matched his team’s defensive rating - identical, slightly better or slightly worse - in each of his NBA seasons. In other words, he doesn’t appear to be a drag on his team’s defense. His offensive rating has been consistently and substantially positive. He has a net positive plus/minus (defensive and offense) in every season except last season, which ended with a stress fracture in his foot. I haven’t been crazy about the idea of the Wolves trading for Obi because of his relatively poor rebounding and that stress fracture last season. But I’ve also assumed he’s a poor defender. Knowing that he’s a decent defender and thinking about his overall offensive game and how well he’d fit with LaMelo, I’ve put him at the top of my realistic PF trade target list. Because his salary matches perfectly with Green’s, we wouldn’t have to wait 60 days for the end of the ban on aggregating Green’s salary. The deal would make sense for Indiana because they’re overloaded at the PF position and apparently looking to shed long-term salary so they can extend Myles Turner after next season. Green would give them a sold 3&D wing on an expiring contract.

Lip I get that we need a PF. I spent some time on Toppin when looking for Randle trades. Based on what I read Toppin is not a good defender. Fans seemed to pretty much agree he wasn't good on that end.

Now here is the biggest thing is the Wolves simply can't afford to spend over 16 million on a backup a year from now. That's an opportunity cost that I can't live with. Who won't we be able to sign or resign due to that money he on the books?

I'd rather sign Sochan (or some other guy) and hope he can at least defend and rebound decently for the vet min than hitch my wagon to Toppin for that salary. It's not that Toppin is a bad player but the financials matter a lot.

I had the same impression of Obi as a bad defender, but the stats suggest he’s not bad. Looking at his defensive stats is what turned me around on him. You raise a great point about the financials. They absolutely matter in today’s NBA and as we all know the Wolves are on a razors edge in that area with the 2nd apron hovering just above us. But it’s his contract that gives us a shot at getting him straight up for Green. And Obi only has two more years on his contract - $15M next season and $16M the following season so it’s not as problematic as PJ Washington’s contract for example, which has 4 years left starting at $20M and increasing to $24.5M.

To your point about paying $15-16M for a backup, I wouldn’t trade for Obi unless he would be a major part of the rotation and possibly a starter. I actually think he’d fit well as a starter with Rudy, Jaden, Edwards and Ball. Rudy and Jaden can cover for Obi’s defensive mediocrity up front. It’s no worse defensively than Randle but offensively Obi would give us floor spacing, speed and mobility we didn’t have with Randle.

I’m actually torn between my two top options. You might be right that the best move would simply be signing Sochan at the vet minimum. It would be a much smarter choice financially and it would give us some additional rebounding, which will be important after losing the rebounding of Randle and Naz.