Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[AussieWolf3]

Best case upside, and I suppose it's reasonable because they have similar profiles is Aaron Gordon.

That would be amazing obviously even if it would mean he would be guaranteed to be priced out of Minnesota.

Realistically?.... I can't think of a player comparison but really just accepting and embracing his role. Just be a high level role player Jon

*Edit: I thought of a player- Tobias Harris. If he have that level of impact that would really good

The Aaron Gordon comp someone mentioned a few days ago from one of the videos they posted really intrigued me. I spent some times comparing their careers especially the first few years and also watched some highlights of Gordon when he was younger. They are similar but different but in general their strengths and weaknesses have plenty of parallels. The Gordon one was a comp that gave me a little more vision of what Kuminga COULD be if he rounds out into a good more consistent player. He has a ways to go because I think Gordon was a better defender early on but I think Kuminga has more offense than Gordon had at that point.

Tobias Harris is an interesting one too. He didn't become a good 3 point shooter till after he had been in the league for like 4 years.

I was curious about Gordon's years with the magic, so I started taking a look.

While I'd like to investigate further, the analytics were more favorable to AG than JK with positive DPM in every but his rookie season. He hovered around +1 (80th percentile) during his time with the team.

JK has been mostly a net zero or worse his career. Context matters so it'll be interesting to analyze that but it's certainly a point in DPMs predictive power that showed AG becoming such an elite level role player (and one of my personal favs)

[Monster]

Best case upside, and I suppose it's reasonable because they have similar profiles is Aaron Gordon.

That would be amazing obviously even if it would mean he would be guaranteed to be priced out of Minnesota.

Realistically?.... I can't think of a player comparison but really just accepting and embracing his role. Just be a high level role player Jon

*Edit: I thought of a player- Tobias Harris. If he have that level of impact that would really good

The Aaron Gordon comp someone mentioned a few days ago from one of the videos they posted really intrigued me. I spent some times comparing their careers especially the first few years and also watched some highlights of Gordon when he was younger. They are similar but different but in general their strengths and weaknesses have plenty of parallels. The Gordon one was a comp that gave me a little more vision of what Kuminga COULD be if he rounds out into a good more consistent player. He has a ways to go because I think Gordon was a better defender early on but I think Kuminga has more offense than Gordon had at that point.

Tobias Harris is an interesting one too. He didn't become a good 3 point shooter till after he had been in the league for like 4 years.

I was curious about Gordon's years with the magic, so I started taking a look.

While I'd like to investigate further, the analytics were more favorable to AG than JK with positive DPM in every but his rookie season. He hovered around +1 (80th percentile) during his time with the team.

JK has been mostly a net zero or worse his career. Context matters so it'll be interesting to analyze that but it's certainly a point in DPMs predictive power that showed AG becoming such an elite level role player (and one of my personal favs)

Yes from what I remember AG was considered a good defender pretty .much from the beginning. The questions about his game were health and offense especially after he got his rookie extension. It seems like to me Kuminga actually might be a little farther ahead of him in terms of overall offensive skill. Watching highlights of both players when they were younger Kuminga looks like a big wing with wing skills. Gordon looks like a big forward with some perimeter skills. Gordon was stronger in his lower half. Kuminga moves more like a wing. I'm not really expecting Kuminga to become Gordon because as a defender he has quite a ways to go there but he has the physical makeup to be a good defender and it seems like he has defended well at times so it's not like he simply hasn't done it at all. Just thinking of a guy that can score some and defend at a pretty high level like Gordon did and he absolutely had some things to work out as a young players gives some sort of reasonable blueprint for Kuminga to get to that's more exciting than him being the next Kelly Oubre Jr or Kyle Kuzma either of which aren't actually terrible outcomes in general but not exactly higher end starter on a contender type guys.

Ultimately this is a good opportunity for Kuminga and the Wolves. They are both highly invested in it working. I saw a recent clip of NAW talking about how he realized in Utah his NBA career Might be coming to a close and how he ended up changing his mentality. Like someone else mentioned a few days ago I wonder if he and Kuminga had any talks and if those were helpful. Sometimes a different environment can help and in my experience sometimes you need to move on from place that's familiar to be able to grow. We will see and while I'm not all in on the likeliness of Kuminga's success I'm here for watching to see how it plays out. I've gotten the sense that while he might have issues with consistency etc I also get the idea he isn't some bad dude that will cause problems on the roster which if that's more true than not is good for any of the possible outcomes.

[AussieWolf3]

The Aaron Gordon comp someone mentioned a few days ago from one of the videos they posted really intrigued me. I spent some times comparing their careers especially the first few years and also watched some highlights of Gordon when he was younger. They are similar but different but in general their strengths and weaknesses have plenty of parallels. The Gordon one was a comp that gave me a little more vision of what Kuminga COULD be if he rounds out into a good more consistent player. He has a ways to go because I think Gordon was a better defender early on but I think Kuminga has more offense than Gordon had at that point.

Tobias Harris is an interesting one too. He didn't become a good 3 point shooter till after he had been in the league for like 4 years.

I was curious about Gordon's years with the magic, so I started taking a look.

While I'd like to investigate further, the analytics were more favorable to AG than JK with positive DPM in every but his rookie season. He hovered around +1 (80th percentile) during his time with the team.

JK has been mostly a net zero or worse his career. Context matters so it'll be interesting to analyze that but it's certainly a point in DPMs predictive power that showed AG becoming such an elite level role player (and one of my personal favs)

Yes from what I remember AG was considered a good defender pretty .much from the beginning. The questions about his game were health and offense especially after he got his rookie extension. It seems like to me Kuminga actually might be a little farther ahead of him in terms of overall offensive skill. Watching highlights of both players when they were younger Kuminga looks like a big wing with wing skills. Gordon looks like a big forward with some perimeter skills. Gordon was stronger in his lower half. Kuminga moves more like a wing. I'm not really expecting Kuminga to become Gordon because as a defender he has quite a ways to go there but he has the physical makeup to be a good defender and it seems like he has defended well at times so it's not like he simply hasn't done it at all. Just thinking of a guy that can score some and defend at a pretty high level like Gordon did and he absolutely had some things to work out as a young players gives some sort of reasonable blueprint for Kuminga to get to that's more exciting than him being the next Kelly Oubre Jr or Kyle Kuzma either of which aren't actually terrible outcomes in general but not exactly higher end starter on a contender type guys.

Ultimately this is a good opportunity for Kuminga and the Wolves. They are both highly invested in it working. I saw a recent clip of NAW talking about how he realized in Utah his NBA career Might be coming to a close and how he ended up changing his mentality. Like someone else mentioned a few days ago I wonder if he and Kuminga had any talks and if those were helpful. Sometimes a different environment can help and in my experience sometimes you need to move on from place that's familiar to be able to grow. We will see and while I'm not all in on the likeliness of Kuminga's success I'm here for watching to see how it plays out. I've gotten the sense that while he might have issues with consistency etc I also get the idea he isn't some bad dude that will cause problems on the roster which if that's more true than not is good for any of the possible outcomes.

Some really insightful analysis, thank you for that.

Since I really only got into paying attention to the NBA about 5 or so years ago, I really don't know much about Gordon's magic days, so helpful context.

What's funny and absolutely fascinating to me about JK is that, because he does move and play like a wing, he has the makings to be an elite defender who can be a ball stopping wing with enough size and strength to defend a lot of PFs.

I personally am just not that interested in offensive skill set, or at least not how he has deployed it most of the time. The real question for him on that end is if he can be a smart player who is able to be a glue guy and consistently makes the "right" plays. This is where I have the most doubt, but it isn't impossible either.

There is a lot of low hanging fruit for him to grab on offense if everyone buys into it (thanks to Howls and Growls for this phrasing). He's such a force in transition and cutting to the basket that he could write his next contract with just that and great defense. I really really hope he and the Wolves can take advantage of that

[Q-is-here]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

[FNG]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

I think you left one clause off the end of your first sentence, Q..."player, who ultimately helped his team win a championship!".

I think Aussie mentioned Harris, and I agree that would be a nice outcome for the Wolves. He may start for the Spurs this season at 34.

Obama described his foreign policy core as "don't do stupid shit", and that might be exactly what we need from the two new members of our starting lineup, as both have had a rep of doing stupid shit in the past. But both are superb athletes amd immensely talented, so if Finchy and their teammates can get both to play team ball and stay within themselves, this could be a very good Wolves season. I don't know that we have ever entered a season with so much promise but also so much uncertainty. The range of how this season could turn out is extremely wide.

[Monster]

I was curious about Gordon's years with the magic, so I started taking a look.

While I'd like to investigate further, the analytics were more favorable to AG than JK with positive DPM in every but his rookie season. He hovered around +1 (80th percentile) during his time with the team.

JK has been mostly a net zero or worse his career. Context matters so it'll be interesting to analyze that but it's certainly a point in DPMs predictive power that showed AG becoming such an elite level role player (and one of my personal favs)

Yes from what I remember AG was considered a good defender pretty .much from the beginning. The questions about his game were health and offense especially after he got his rookie extension. It seems like to me Kuminga actually might be a little farther ahead of him in terms of overall offensive skill. Watching highlights of both players when they were younger Kuminga looks like a big wing with wing skills. Gordon looks like a big forward with some perimeter skills. Gordon was stronger in his lower half. Kuminga moves more like a wing. I'm not really expecting Kuminga to become Gordon because as a defender he has quite a ways to go there but he has the physical makeup to be a good defender and it seems like he has defended well at times so it's not like he simply hasn't done it at all. Just thinking of a guy that can score some and defend at a pretty high level like Gordon did and he absolutely had some things to work out as a young players gives some sort of reasonable blueprint for Kuminga to get to that's more exciting than him being the next Kelly Oubre Jr or Kyle Kuzma either of which aren't actually terrible outcomes in general but not exactly higher end starter on a contender type guys.

Ultimately this is a good opportunity for Kuminga and the Wolves. They are both highly invested in it working. I saw a recent clip of NAW talking about how he realized in Utah his NBA career Might be coming to a close and how he ended up changing his mentality. Like someone else mentioned a few days ago I wonder if he and Kuminga had any talks and if those were helpful. Sometimes a different environment can help and in my experience sometimes you need to move on from place that's familiar to be able to grow. We will see and while I'm not all in on the likeliness of Kuminga's success I'm here for watching to see how it plays out. I've gotten the sense that while he might have issues with consistency etc I also get the idea he isn't some bad dude that will cause problems on the roster which if that's more true than not is good for any of the possible outcomes.

Some really insightful analysis, thank you for that.

Since I really only got into paying attention to the NBA about 5 or so years ago, I really don't know much about Gordon's magic days, so helpful context.

What's funny and absolutely fascinating to me about JK is that, because he does move and play like a wing, he has the makings to be an elite defender who can be a ball stopping wing with enough size and strength to defend a lot of PFs.

I personally am just not that interested in offensive skill set, or at least not how he has deployed it most of the time. The real question for him on that end is if he can be a smart player who is able to be a glue guy and consistently makes the "right" plays. This is where I have the most doubt, but it isn't impossible either.

There is a lot of low hanging fruit for him to grab on offense if everyone buys into it (thanks to Howls and Growls for this phrasing). He's such a force in transition and cutting to the basket that he could write his next contract with just that and great defense. I really really hope he and the Wolves can take advantage of that

I agree that it's more important for Kuminga to defend and in general do shit but I do think it's worthwhile to still consider his ability as an offensive player. Having a guy that can attack off the dribble at times can help. He gets to the line at a higher rate than Gordon did and that is plenty useful. He has a knack for getting to the line. Nobody here wants this guy to be jacking up 16ppg (or Gordon if he was here) but having a guy with something in his bag to get a shot here and there when you need it or if there are injuries is nice at least in theory. Whether he buys into using it at the right times or not is a question. We have seen guys like Russell and Randle buy into a role to some extent (at least in the regular season) that worked well so there is some hope Kuminga who is significantly less established than either of those guys can slot into a spot on the Wolves. It's also worth noting that with both Randle and Naz gone there is still some opening there for a guy at the 4 to have some shots.

[Q-is-here]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

I think you left one clause off the end of your first sentence, Q..."player, who ultimately helped his team win a championship!".

I think Aussie mentioned Harris, and I agree that would be a nice outcome for the Wolves. He may start for the Spurs this season at 34.

Obama described his foreign policy core as "don't do stupid shit", and that might be exactly what we need from the two new members of our starting lineup, as both have had a rep of doing stupid shit in the past. But both are superb athletes amd immensely talented, so if Finchy and their teammates can get both to play team ball and stay within themselves, this could be a very good Wolves season. I don't know that we have ever entered a season with so much promise but also so much uncertainty. The range of how this season could turn out is extremely wide.

Guess who else won a ring along with Wiggins? Jonathan Kuminga!!! It was his rookie year and he was Golden State's 10th man throughout the playoffs. He didn't play a lot, but he definitely got some run.

[Monster]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

I think you left one clause off the end of your first sentence, Q..."player, who ultimately helped his team win a championship!".

I think Aussie mentioned Harris, and I agree that would be a nice outcome for the Wolves. He may start for the Spurs this season at 34.

Obama described his foreign policy core as "don't do stupid shit", and that might be exactly what we need from the two new members of our starting lineup, as both have had a rep of doing stupid shit in the past. But both are superb athletes amd immensely talented, so if Finchy and their teammates can get both to play team ball and stay within themselves, this could be a very good Wolves season. I don't know that we have ever entered a season with so much promise but also so much uncertainty. The range of how this season could turn out is extremely wide.

If we could have signed Andrew Wiggins for 6 million to play PG this year I would have done it so fast! Kuminga has quite a ways to go to he that winning player Wiggins turned into. Wiggins had also played a shit-ton of minutes at the time of the trade partly due to him being an iron man and also because he was kinda good from the jump.

Ball doing dumb shit but also a lot of good shit is a little different than Kuminga...but Kuminga doesn't have to do as much good shit and eliminating dumb shit to be a worthwhile starter/rotation player. I think the floor for both guys is higher (other than injuries) than sometimes they get credit for. Some advanced stats are less kind to Kuminga though.

[FNG]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

I think you left one clause off the end of your first sentence, Q..."player, who ultimately helped his team win a championship!".

I think Aussie mentioned Harris, and I agree that would be a nice outcome for the Wolves. He may start for the Spurs this season at 34.

Obama described his foreign policy core as "don't do stupid shit", and that might be exactly what we need from the two new members of our starting lineup, as both have had a rep of doing stupid shit in the past. But both are superb athletes amd immensely talented, so if Finchy and their teammates can get both to play team ball and stay within themselves, this could be a very good Wolves season. I don't know that we have ever entered a season with so much promise but also so much uncertainty. The range of how this season could turn out is extremely wide.

Guess who else won a ring along with Wiggins? Jonathan Kuminga!!! It was his rookie year and he was Golden State's 10th man throughout the playoffs. He didn't play a lot, but he definitely got some run.

Ha, totally forgot about that! He'll be the only guy in the locker room with a ring...well, at least until Love joins the team.

[Coolbreeze44]

Kuminga might just end up being the PF version of Andrew Wiggins - a supreme athlete that leaves you wanting for more, but is ultimately a solid starting-caliber player. That wouldn't be the worst outcome. Someone else mentioned Tobias Harris, another sort of "blah" player, but certainly good enough to plug-in as a starter and play a role.

We mostly need Kuminga to just not do dumb stuff and defend.

I think you left one clause off the end of your first sentence, Q..."player, who ultimately helped his team win a championship!".

I think Aussie mentioned Harris, and I agree that would be a nice outcome for the Wolves. He may start for the Spurs this season at 34.

Obama described his foreign policy core as "don't do stupid shit", and that might be exactly what we need from the two new members of our starting lineup, as both have had a rep of doing stupid shit in the past. But both are superb athletes amd immensely talented, so if Finchy and their teammates can get both to play team ball and stay within themselves, this could be a very good Wolves season. I don't know that we have ever entered a season with so much promise but also so much uncertainty. The range of how this season could turn out is extremely wide.

Fungo, you are worrying me here. What did Obama end up doing? Stupid shit.